Quote from: franky1 on Today at 12:38:04 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on January 07, 2025, 10:42:16 PM

[edited out]

none of this sounds like obligated employment
none of this sounds like work
it sounds like favours and chores and showing appreciation for friends

it seems you lack even knowledge of what WORK is.. vs doing a friend a favour and them repaying you some how
heck you even call your 'help' and helping a friend..
you didnt mention client, employer, customer

Oh gawd franky1.... Roll Eyes

You seem to be agreeing with me, but still unable to really agree.. .You seem to want to ongoingly nitpick about nearly irrelevant nonsense.

Quote from: franky1 on Today at 12:38:04 AM

so its obvious that your example is not a form of obligated work for a contracted salary/income

Great. We seem to kind of, sort of agree about something for a nanosecond.

Quote from: franky1 on Today at 12:38:04 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on January 07, 2025, 10:42:16 PM

He told me about our mutual friend who also could use similar kind of help, and he suggested that in the coming months that we meet up with our mutual friend to help him in similar kinds of ways, which implied that the compensation would be similar. I told him that I would get back with him about my thoughts on the matter of the mutual friend, about whether I wanted to do it, and if so how it might fit into my schedule. He said o.k., and about two weeks later, I got back with him and proposed a schedule in which I largely accepted our planned future project, and with a kind of implication that either he or our friend would probably end up insisting on paying me some kind of a similar amount.

again no obligation, no contract, no wording of customer, client, employer.. instead its all about helping a friend
none of this sounds like obligated employment

Oh? So you don't seem to have any problem that we are going to agree to a schedule in advance, and it is quite likely that the guy is going to end up paying me?

Maybe I should just rejoice in our seeming agreement rather than attempting to undermine it?

Quote from: franky1 on Today at 12:38:04 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on January 07, 2025, 10:42:16 PM

Quote from: franky1 on January 07, 2025, 02:20:36 AM

you keep asserting that going back to work or continuing to work is somehow retiring/being retired, when you keep insanely determining that people can be in work whilst in FIRE status

Sure. That is more or less correct in regards to what I am asserting.

Quote from: franky1 on January 07, 2025, 02:20:36 AM

the FI is important if you want full financial independence(FI) to make ANY choice INCLUDING returning to or continuing work.. but adding the RE means you chose to retire and do life stuff instead, not work stuff

It seems quite likely that you go wrong in your trying to determine what is "work" versus "life" stuff, and surely I could concede that there could be some people who deceive themselves in regards to their own self-descriptions in regards to their level of financial independence and how it might apply to their abilities to say fuck you regarding any work relation that they might enter, which implies that sometimes the voluntariness of the involvement of any supposed financially independent person in any such work that he agrees to perform could be more compromised than such persons are willing to admit.

Perhaps you and I differ in how much weight or how much we want to get into details in regards to figuring out the extent to which the activities of purportedly financially independent persons are voluntary or not, and it seems that I hardly give too many shits about those kinds of details, and you want to jump in and proclaim those kinds of details as if they are deal breakers and/or that they eliminate certain persons from self-proclaiming as being in fuck you status or FIRE status or filthy rich status or whatever merely because they are not jumping through appropriate Frank1 definitional hoops.

Quote from: franky1 on January 07, 2025, 02:20:36 AM

i dont care if you personally want to work after you reach FI (your F U status) but dont describe yourself as retired whilst still affirming that you are working, it makes no sense

You also make little sense, so there is that angle, too. Tongue

though from time to time, to the extent that you are not bordering on annoying, you do provide some humor in your ongoing insistences upon your own definitional and quasi-psychotic frameworks.

Quote from: franky1 on January 07, 2025, 02:20:36 AM

as for your last paragraph, you could have just said you dont want to be part of(what you call) a 'dumb acronym' of FIRE. and instead you just want to reach the FI status and continue to have the philosophy to work if you want to
there is no problem and i have no problem with you just wanting to be FI

im going to give up at this point at reading your endless walls of text of gibberish of you thinking that retirement is not retirement and how its actually still work
(facepalm: im starting to think you have no clue about many general common sense concepts in society)

Great. I win because franky1 gave up. Cheesy

Quote from: franky1 on Today at 12:38:04 AM

may you enjoy your life of endlessly being committed to work until the day of our death..
may you enjoy never experiencing FIRE

Are you trying to be a BIG meanie?

Quote from: franky1 on Today at 12:38:04 AM

the stupid thing is if you really think that fire is as you deceive yourself to believe it is. then in your technical view you are already in FIRE... BUT reality of common sense shows that you are not and you just do not understand much about what work is and what retirement is to know the difference

I am thinking that I was largely in FIRE since about late 2013, yet do I need to describe my whole life and my activities in order to convince you?

It's not like we are going to agree, and it is not like I have any desire to provide those kinds of details within the context of this topic, even if there have been various posts that I have described some of my various work, business, investment-related activities, yet frequently it still can become problematic to flesh out details that largely are not even very relevant to various overall points that are being made, especially since I had already explained several times that from my own point of view (and your seemingly ongoing disagreement) the FI portion of our discussion remains way more important than getting into what may or may not constitute sufficiently adequate and/or meaningful kinds of RE activities (or non-activities).

Quote from: franky1 on Today at 12:38:04 AM

i do hope you change your mindset and one day reach a target goal to actually enter fire (common sense definition).. but until then.. continue confusing yourself

It seems that I have been talking about this topic (at least the FI portion of it) for most of my time on the forum, even though also from my perspective, it is quite likely that my ideas have also been evolving during those 11-ish years, and I am not even convinced that my framework is insufficient for the consideration and ongoing discussing of the FIRE matter, even if you are proclaiming some particulars of the criteria (specifically the RE portion) to be more relevant than I have been allowing within my own framing and contemplation of the matter.

Quote from: franky1 on Today at 12:38:04 AM

you had your chance to learn and be educated by someone thats actually living the real FIRE lifestyle.. but instead your ego has pushed your into your self belief of your delusions and not allowed yourself to be open to learning things.... yet again(multiple topics of proof)

Why can't we just agree to disagree rather than your wanting to proclaim a superior perspective on the matter?

It could well be that I am way too dumb to relate to your obviously superior perspective? I might need to ponder from this angle further, and stop allowing my smug wannabe know-it-all-ness from continuing to get in the way and screw up my own ideas regarding the difference between work and not work. Based on what little I am able to understand from your more enlightened viewpoint, it seems that my consideration of my own free-will needs to be drawn into question.

I might have to incorporate more yoga into my daily routine. Daily pushups since last February are just not helping me to better understand myself and/or the extent to which my daily activities are work or not.. Probably a guy needs to better understand himself if he wants to attempt to relate to others, too.. Right?

Quote from: franky1 on Today at 12:38:04 AM

you have no idea what FIRE is all about and it seems you have no intention to learn AND no intention to actually be part of FIRE in the future..

Ok... You got me. I may well be trying to infiltrate FIRE by de-emphasizing the RE portion, so I am not really sure how to cause the RE to get added back into my way of thinking, especially since whatever you said has not been helping to make sure that I don't lose any more of the RE than what it seems that I had already lost in my prior corrupted mentality on the topic.

Quote from: franky1 on Today at 12:38:04 AM

so just give up replying on the topic you know nothing about and dont want to know anything and dont want to ever be part of

Good thing that this is not a moderated thread, and good thing that you are not calling the shots in regards to what is relevant and what is not, including your own proclamations about what is a valid mental framework, especially since it could well be possible (if you ever did consider the matter?) that I might be more correct on the topic than you. Did you ever think that could be possible? Maybe we should spell it FIre rather than capitalizing all of the letters in the acronym.. .. Perhaps even FIre might be even better? I am not 100% convinced either way, even though it is possible that your ongoing obsession about the RE portion may well have inadvertently highlighted an important discussion point.

Quote from: franky1 on Today at 12:38:04 AM

but i do wish one day you do put your ego aside and learn the possibilities of a better life in the future and one day want to aim for it. instead of the actions you play around with right now

Hm? There may well be times that my ego becomes a bit stronger than it needs to be, and surely I don't even consider myself to be a very strong-ego'ed person, so sure it could well be true that sometimes the ego could get in the way, and some of us might not even realize that our ego is part of the problem.

How do you consider yourself and your own ego in regards to battling around forum ideas? Do you consider yourself to be a forum member who does not let his ego to get in the way of his various discussion points?

Surely, you consider yourself to be better at controlling your ego than me, and so maybe there could be a problem that I am one of those guys who happens to be the hero in his own journey, yet at the same time, I don't even realize how I am failing/refusing to adequately contemplate ideas outside of my own lil fantasies of the world?

I am thinking the possibility that I better get working on myself, especially since I had not even realized how much I happen to be the problem that I have been trying to fix.. it is not you, it is me. I think that you are absorbed into dogmatic definitions and nonsense, but I am just not giving your stupid-ass ideas enough time to resonate... I am jumping to conclusions and not really contemplating how RE is actually equally important as FI.. or at least in the ballpark of equal.

Maybe if I don't really want to do yoga, then perhaps stretching might at least start to lead me down a better path towards adjusting my mentality, even though I am not really going to want to give up my daily pushups? At least, I am considering possible adjustments that might be within something that I may well be willing to add into the realm of possible. right?