Quote from: bubilas on Today at 12:09:34 PM

Quote from: Poker Player on December 22, 2024, 02:13:01 PM

This thread is in contrast to the following one:
Financial Independence Retire Early [F.I.R.E]
It's not that I want to make a competition between the two threads, far from it, but I have long thought that even if the time comes when I accumulate so much wealth that I can retire, even before the ordinary retirement age, I don't plan to do so. I will first quote part of what I said in that thread:

Quote from: Poker Player on December 18, 2024, 04:49:15 PM

I am not attracted to this movement, and in 5 to 10 years at the most I will be able to quit my job, or spend a year traveling around the world if I want to. Some FIRE stories are of a sub-human stinginess to reach the goal of financial freedom, and then when they get it they still find it hard to spend the money. Also, having no obligations, lots of free time and little to do ends up with some people dying from overdoses or things like that. Those who don't take that route end up going back to work, but in something that they want, that motivates them and being their own boss. Marc Cuban would be an example.

I would also like to say that I'm not pretending this is an idea that I invented. I'm sure I've heard it from several public figures, one of whom was Dave Ramsey.

If you were retired, would you mind very much doing a job like participating in a paid signature campaign of the forum? I wouldn't, and even less if it's one of those that doesn't have a weekly minimum.

If we think about physical jobs and people going through hardships to do them, like miners during the industrial revolution, then we will surely want to retire as soon as possible. But today there are many jobs that can be done with a computer. And if you have accumulated enough money to retire, you can also make a small investment to start a project that motivates you. That is why I say that I plan, one way or another, never to retire, at least as long as my cognitive abilities allow me to do so.

What about you guys?

You know, I recently noticed one interesting detail: guys who work full-time dream of quitting as soon as possible when they are on paid leave. They think that the same comfortable and free state will be maintained without work. But I want to say that this is not so. Because if someone is on paid leave, then this is the time when his employer pays for this guy's vacation. But if someone quits his job, he will feel stress, and not such freedom. In general, these states are not equivalent.

You are likely ONLY correct to the extent that a job will manage some of your finances and/or your benefits, yet if you have built enough of a nest-egg then you can make sure that you finances cover all of your out-of-pocket pay and any other job-related benefits that you would have had, and yeah, employers may also pay into health insurance or retirement funds, and so then the retired person would be responsible for maintaining or funding those kinds of systems to the extent that they are still needed or wanted.

For any person who had already worked for several years, he may have had been paying into various kinds of benefits that might be continuable or moved over into his retirement status, and so there could be private pensions and government related social security that might well still be available, yet have age requirements before they might be drawn upon.

Some guys make mistakes of failing/refusing to pay into some of the public kinds of benefits, so then they might have had the false sense that they were being paid more than they were, and so when they go to retire in their elderly years, they had not been paying into benefits that more traditional workers might have had been paying into.

Of course, with something like bitcoin we may well be needing to keep in mind the ability to continue to fund into future years, and there could still be reasons to preserve capital for those purposes, like paying into a retirement fund if we are still young, yet if we ar older, then we may well consider ourselves to be either drawing upon such retirement funds or maybe we are not feeling any need to continue to build that retirement portion of our funds to a higher level.

I doubt that you @bubilas are making any kind of meaningful point beyond a need for any guy to remember to calculate any of the extra and quasi-hidden benefits that still might be included, such as if there also could be various insurance policies that a guy could pay into for certain kind of events that might have had previously been covered by employers, to the extent to which employers stand behind workers if there might be extra costs involved, such as health events can sometimes cause employees to lose their job based on inabilities to perform and also that the employer does not want to pay the extra costs, in the event that they have extra costs beyond their insurance and sometimes even if they have insurance, they might not want to make certain kinds of claims with their insurance that might cause their insurance costs to go up.

Quote from: arufox on Today at 12:30:35 PM

Quote from: Accardo on December 22, 2024, 02:52:28 PM

If retirement will improve my life, I'd do it, because of the positive lifestyle that I could chase when the time for retirement shows up. I'm not considering traveling, or focusing on a hobby, at least having excessive time to spend with family and friends is a great reason for my retirement plans. However, after a while and it gets tiring, and nothing is stopping me from working, things like health, I would consider lesser intensive jobs like affiliate marketing, or a business that somebody else would help manage, so that much time will be left to relax.

While we are still actively working, it is also important to plan our retirement carefully so that when we retire we will not be confused, especially if the main focus is quality time with family. However, thinking about more flexible and less intensive work options such as affiliate marketing can be an additional income to stay active and productive without sacrificing our free time.

It may be fairly common that guys either miscalculate how much time that they might need to spend organizing and/or managing whatever wealth that they have once it comes time to start to draw upon it as compared to when they previously had been in a status of merely building it. Sometimes guys might also be lacking in some math skills or even in need to learn certain kinds of math and accounting skills so that they do not make basic mistakes, which might even include making sure that their money is still working for them, so for example with bitcoin, they may well be better to make various periodical withdrawals and maybe even attempt to time some of the withdrawals during price highs rather than price lows, yet it may not be very crucial that they time the market very much so long as they are not selling large amounts of their holdings at inopportune times (such as times when the price is low rather than medium or high). Of course, we are not going to know the future price, yet we can still attempt to be reasonable in our ways of withdrawing into cash or even if we might keep funds in various places in ways that they might have different time lines in which they might need to come available, yet also potentially with some flexibility in terms of deciding from which funds to draw...

so for example, we might have some money coming from pension/social security every month, and then some money we draw from our 401k, some money that we get from rents, some money we have in cash equivalent accounts that earns interest, some money in bitcoin that we might draw monthly or quarterly, yet maybe from time to time, we might cash out 6-24 months in advance, especially if we might worry about future price performance, yet we might ONLY want to draw larger amounts if we already have extra money in there.. so for example, if we believe that bare minimum we want to continue to have 10-12 years of our income in bitcoin, yet if we have 18-25 years worth of our income/expenses in bitcoin, then we may well feel more at liberty to draw some extra years in advance.. so if we had 22 years in bitcoin, then we decide to draw 2 years and then be stuck with only having 20 years in bitcoin, but then if we ONLY had 10-12 years in bitcoin, we might feel that we can ONLY draw one month or perhaps one quarter at a time, unless there is a sudden price rise, then we might have more liberty.. yet at the same time, I really think that we might not be eligible to be living off our investments if we are barely making our minimums, so it is way better to have way more than our minimums in each category rather than being stressed about which funds hold enough (or extra) in order to draw upon them.

So frequently, I profess that we should be assessing the value of our BTC holdings from the 200-WMA (which can be considered around a bottom price area) rather than assessing the value based on spot price in order that we don't get tricked (by ourselves perhaps) into believing that we are richer than we are, especially if the BTC price suddenly drops by 50%, we may well be in a better assessment if we had measured or BTC portfolio value by the 200-WMA rather than spot price.