Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 09:53:47 PM

Quote from: GIF-JOBS on Today at 09:27:16 AM

Quote from: Mayor of ogba on Today at 08:41:15 AM

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When it comes to investing in Bitcoin, a general rule is that one should build an emergency fund first, but if one wants to, one can start investing without building one at the beginning.

A person could come to bitcoin (or just get started in bitcoin) within a variety of kinds of personal circumstances, and even very messed up financial management of hardly any savings at all and potentially a lot of debt and perhaps even irregular cashflows in terms of how much income comes in (and how frequently) and the various kinds of expenses might be irregular perhaps due to bad management and even his having had a compulsive personality.

So, then we might get down to basics in regards to how catastrophic is the persons life, emotions and finances? What does the person have to get in order prior to starting with bitcoin, and perhaps it is also possible that he could get his life in better order simultaneously to getting into bitcoin, yet bitcoin could also serve as a motivator for him to have some kind of focus and to clean up the rest of his finances, perhaps bad practices and emotions.

I am not suggesting that all people can save themselves, yet I doubt that it is fruitful to presume that guys have to get the rest of their shit together prior to getting started in bitcoin, and perhaps how they get into bitcoin is a matter of degree and approach rather than proclaiming that there is a need to get the rest of the financial/psychological shit together first.

Of course, an important aspect would likely boil down to whether the guy has discretionary income or not, so the BIGGEST deal breaker in regards to getting into bitcoin may well come down to whether he currently has discretionary income or if he can at least sufficiently arrange some of his matters to assure that he has discretionary income, and the more than he can improve his discretionary income the more he likely can resolve the various messed up matters that he might have going on within his recent situation and affecting his present finances/psychology.

Surely there are some folks who are basket cases who are not emotionally mature enough (and perhaps lacking in basic math skills) to handle their own finances, yet I am not going to presume normal people to be like that, and I am actually going to presume that an overwhelming majority of folks are capable of knowing and/or learning and if they are retards, then that is on them to figure that part out.. but it seems way safer to presume folks as smart rather than dumb, and if they are dumb they better get someone to help them out so they don't totally ruin themselves through their dumbness..

Quote from: GIF-JOBS on Today at 09:27:16 AM

However, after investing for a month or a few months, one should build an emergency fund so that they can be protected against any unforeseen circumstances in the future, because unforeseen circumstances can come in a person's life at any moment, and if the investor is not prepared to deal with those unforeseen circumstances at that time, then his holdings can be damaged, and we all know that if the Bitcoin holdings have to be sold suddenly, then the investor can suffer losses at that time. Because at that time the price of Bitcoin may be in a dumping situation, because Bitcoin is a volatile currency.

You are not wrong, yet you still seem to be trying to suggest that certain preparations have to be done prior to getting started in bitcoin, which personally, I tend to think that an overwhelming majority (almost everyone) should be able to get started in bitcoin right away as soon as possible. Sure, they may have shit that they have to sort out in their life, but the presumption seems to be that getting started is better than waiting... and yeah, if they have such an emergency situation that they cannot start, then they better figure that out.. and if they have a gambling personality, then they better figure that out too.. since I am not suggesting anyone gamble and/or trade with bitcoin, but come to bitcoin with an intention to invest 4-10 years or longer.

Let's just take what might be a kind of typical normal person who might have screwed up finances. I am going to presume that even the most fucked up people are still going to have a practice in which they tend to maintain some kind of a float of 2 weeks to 6 weeks so that if they lose their job they can still eat and have a house.. yeah, sure there are people in worse situations and if they are in such a worse situation, then they should not be getting started, yet I am going to presume amongst the worst already has around 2 weeks of cash available, which allows many folks to be able to buy an ice cream or a drink at the bar.. and yeah, sure there are people who cannot even afford the basics, but I am not going to assume that.

In other words, even the person in the worst case situation should be able to figure out whether he has $10 to buy bitcoin or not (which could be the same as having $10 to buy a lottery ticket), and if he has the $10, then he is figuring that he is investing 4-10 years or longer... yes or no? If he has it, he can get started, and if he does not have $10 then he cannot start until he gets to a situation that he has the $10.

Ok. In the meantime, if his situation is really fucked up, then maybe he can ONLY start with buying $10 of bitcoin per month, but we want to try to work up to his being able to buy $10 per week, so yeah, sure I will grant you that some people might not be able to start with $10 per week so they have to work up to it.. and they may also have to simultaneously build up their emergency fund... and in the end, the worse their finances and the less regular their discretionary income situation, then they have to take care of that first. because whatever they put into bitcoin would be locked away for 4-10 years or longer.. and so yeah.. maybe it ends up taking more than a year where they have 3 months of their expenses/income invested into bitcoin and 3 months in their emergency fund.

Let's say that this beginner into bitcoin has an income that ranges between $200 per month and $600 per month, yet his expenses range between $300 and $400 per month, so he does not have a lot of room, and the fact that his income can sometimes be less than his expenses means that he has to have that money available for the months that his income is less than his expenses, and he may well need to figure out ways to increase his income and lessen his expenses, so the more likely that he is going to have months in which his expenses are more than his income, then that means that largely he does not have discretionary income.. so a guy without discretionary income is not eligible to invest in bitcoin because if he buys bitcoin, he would be gambling and/or trading rather than investing, and so people have to be able to recognize and appreciate.. do they have discretionary income or not. If they have discretionary income, they are able to invest in bitcoin, and if they don't have it, then they have to figure out how to improve their situation to be able to invest into bitcoin, otherwise they cannot invest in bitcoin since they would be trading/gambling, and personally, I don't recommend trading/gambling with bitcoin (even though some folks will do that, but those people are retarded, from my perspective).

Quote from: GIF-JOBS on Today at 09:27:16 AM

That is why, to invest in a highly volatile market like Bitcoin, investors should do proper research and develop a risk management strategy,

You continue to put obstacles... and the main question is do you have discretionary income or not? you can figure out and sort out the other details as you go.

Quote from: GIF-JOBS on Today at 09:27:16 AM

You should use that money to invest in regular DCA, which you will not need in your daily life or any time, and keep all funds ready, emergency funds/reserve funds as well as all necessary funds. In this way, the more an investor invests in Bitcoin, the more secure and confident you can continue holding for Long time.

Sure all of that can be built as a guy goes, and one of the most important things is getting started, and the main question is do you have discretionary income or not.. if you do then get started right now... if you are not sure, then figure that part out first. and once you figure out that you have discretionary income, then get started.. and work out your other details as you go, including that no one should want to put themselves to sell any of their bitcoin, except at a time that is completely of their own choosing and likely somewhere down the road that is greater then 4-10 years or longer.

Quote from: rachael9385 on Today at 09:39:08 AM

Quote from: bestcandy on Today at 03:54:48 AM

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Sure, uncertainty, based on the importance of choosing a trustworthy person as next of kin who will inherit your Bitcoin portfolio. However, one needs to make sure he's given access to a trustworthy person who will respect his or her wishes and can manage his investment carefully after gaining access to it. Before giving access to your next of kin, you need to make the person understand Bitcoin investment, including how to increase the portfolio and how to manage the wallet and seed phrase.

After giving your next of kin access to your Bitcoin investment, you also need to constantly check your portfolio and ensure you share Bitcoin updates regularly with him/her to ensure things are accurate. And before doing this, you need to ensure you have activated a 2FA method on your wallet so that it can prevent unauthorized access to your Bitcoin portfolio (except by you and your next of kin).

It seems problematic to be involving your next of kin with your finances prior to your death or incapacitation, so it seems a big presumption that guys should allow access prior to their death/incapacitation, even though optionally some guys might choose to go down that path....

For sure, there is a bit of a danger that if you do not involve them very much prior to your death/incapacitation, then next of kin will not figure out how to access and/or manage your coins, so maybe you have to take some minimal steps to assure that yet giving them prior access or even too much insight into any details seems quite problematic, at least from my perspective and even acknowledging that some guys will find it acceptable and even preferable to go down that problematic path.

Quote from: Stablexcoin on Today at 10:52:39 AM

Quote from: Rabata on January 09, 2025, 12:33:52 PM

For those who are interested in lump sum investments, it can be difficult to hold Bitcoin for the long term. They may sell Bitcoin for a small profit, but those who plan for the long term by doing DCA can be a strong holder. Stress free investing can certainly give the investor many advantages in holding it for the long term.

I disagree with you here. You are getting it all wrong. The strategy an investor chooses to implement in their investment does not guarantee that they will be a long-term holder or not. This means that whether they use DCA lr Lump sum the choice is theirs to make if they want to hold their investment for long term or short term. The essence of this strategy is to help people buy/accumulate Bitcoin.

Lump sum can vary. For some people lump sum might be 5x their normal $100 DCA amount.. so a lump sum might be $500. for other people maybe they choose lump sum by moving $230k from their 401k and put it into bitcoin, so that they won't plan to add any more to their bitcoin for the next 10 years or more... so when they put $230k into bitcoin, they are considering it as a kind of frontloading of 15 years (or so) of what would have had been their anticipated DCA amount ($300 per week) in advance.

Lump sum investing can create certain kinds of dynamics, and I personally prefer some kind of a supplementation of lump sum with DCA and/or buying on dips, but yeah, guys can choose whatever they like and particulars about the lump sum or what are their other financial/psychological circumstances might be needed to account in order to figure out the various ways to play their choice to lump sum invest into bitcoin.

Quote from: Stablexcoin on Today at 10:52:39 AM

Quote from: Rabata on January 09, 2025, 12:33:52 PM

There are many investors who are afraid to invest in the beginning, they are afraid to invest in Bitcoin due to market volatility, for them, investing in DCA on the one hand makes the investor confident and on the other hand they are able to learn more about Bitcoin. Because of which they increase the investing amount in the future. By doing DCA, an investor benefits in all areas. Some new investors may be encouraged to invest in other cryptocurrencies without increasing their Bitcoin investment because they do not have enough money. But if they plan to do DCA, they can only hold Bitcoin regularly. Applying this strategy, an opportunity will be created for long-term holding, which can make the investor profitable.

The only fear an investor should have is the fear of not starting their investment when they are ready. If they have learnt a few things about Bitcoin by now they should know that market volatility is the least thing a long term investor should be worried about. I can say they are only procasitinating based on other reasons then putting the blame on market volatility. Thats just it.

We might not be able to completely get rid of fear no matter what investment we get into, whether bitcoin or anything else, yet it seems that both our position size and our ways of dealing with incremental investing can help us to mitigate some of our fears, even though the fear might not completely go away. We can have fears that kick in from price movements going down or even from prices going up.. so it can be difficult to completely get rid of fear, even when we might employ what seem to be decently reasonable mitigating factors to help us with position size management, or sometimes reinforcing our commitment by continuing to buy no matter what or buying on dips, yet sometimes, we may also feel that HODLing might be our way of dealing with fear and riding out some of the volatility that can contribute to changes in our emotions in regards to our bitcoin holdings and/or any other assets/currencies that we might have (not even referring to shitcoins, even though some guys - might we refer to them as gamblers/traders - might choose to hold some shitcoins).

Quote from: rachael9385 on Today at 04:11:51 PM

Quote from: Sim_card on Today at 12:51:37 PM

Quote from: bestcandy on Today at 12:40:02 PM

which can only be possible when there is a set aside emergency fund to take care of other basic needs because without having alternate source of income one may be tempted to sell the Bitcoin when it has not attain the expected performance.

You don't need an emergency funds to take care of your basic needs, because emergency funds is to take care of any unforeseen circumstances that plays out during your bitcoin investment

Don't misunderstand the purpose of setting up an emergency funds. Your basic needs should be taken care of from your income before you can use the leftover which is your discretionary to invest in bitcoin and build up your emergency funds. Your emergency funds should only be tampered with when there's an emergency that must be taken care of so that the does not worsen the situation on ground. Like losing your job, the roof of your house was pulled of by storm and severe accident cases.

You don't need to have an alternative source of bitcoin before you can hodli your investment for long as long as you are using the right amount of money from your discretionary income to invest in bitcoin, you will be fine. Having an alternative source of income is to boost your financial strength so that you can be progressive in life and also use the chance to increase your weekly DCA amount in order for you to reach your bitcoin target faster.

You are right, and you have made @bestcandy understand the purpose of emergency funds. But I add some additional hints to the points you have already made.
First, not everything is an emergency issue (like buying a house or buying a car and other necessary things we need daily are not emergency issues). Emergency cases are unexpected things that happen when you do not expect them.
I think emergency cases are things that may happen, and if we do not look into them and solve them immediately, we might be at a big loss or high risk. And I believe we know some of the emergency cases, i.e., medical issues, job loss, and natural disasters (which we do not wish for).
Emergency funds should not be used for basic needs (just like you have highlighted already). Basic needs are what an investor needs to take care of before purchasing his regular amount in Bitcoin (through the DCA method).
Before going into an investment, you need to make sure you have your basic needs and other expenses covered, but you only need to take from your emergency funds when there is a crisis, medical attention, or disaster. Do not forget to use spare (leftover) money to invest in Bitcoin.

If the only extra money that you have is your emergency fund, then you have no choice but to spend from either that or to take from your investment, so we should realize that various kinds of back up funds will have priorities in which we should have some kind of a pecking order, and perhaps the better that we manage our cashflow, the more likely that we never ever have to even touch our emergency fund, since perhaps we might even be in a position to handle some shortages in our cashflow and some extra expense for several months before we are in a position in which all that we have left is the emergency fund.. and another thing that we likely know is that if we are starting to experience some extra expenses and some shortages in income, then we might already have some back up measures that we are able to take to increase income or cut expenses, yet maybe after a bit of time, the imbalances become more and more severe. .which largely at that point we are starting to run out of funds to address the various issues.. which is also one of the reason why newer investors are way more prone to fuck up their bitcoin investment since it can take years and years and years to put various systems in place and including having some categories of funds that we might draw upon that may well not be considered to be traditional emergency funds, but the longer that we are investing and employing strong cashflow management practices, then the more severe and even drug out does the situation need to become before we are even getting to a point that we are running out of funds.

I recall my own bitcoin investment circumstances in terms of my own running out of money during various dips in the BTC price, and the longer that I have been in bitcoin, then the more that I have been able to build various kinds of additional back up funds and back up resources.. while putting my bitcoin at a further distance from ever having to cash any out except at a point that is completely of my own choosing.. .but it also helps if our investment in bitcoin is profitable.. so that people with more resource don't even necessarily have to be as strict with themselves in terms of where they might draw upon if they might need some extra funds.. so for example, the roof blows off or the girlfriend crashes the new bmie.. .. .so .. maybe we have to spend a day or two figuring out from where to draw the resources to fix the roof and to buy a replacement bmie... but those extra expenses are less of a BIG deal, as compared with someone in the earliest of stages in regards to building up his bitcoin investment and the need to make sure that he has various kinds of funds to cover various kinds of expenses and/or shortages in cashflow.

Surely there would be priorities in the categories of various backup funds and the kinds of current or expected expenses that any guy might have, and once the various backup funds get so depleted that emergency funds are needing to be tapped into, then such guy (bitcoiner) should have already realized that he is getting into a pretty tough place and a place that he does not want to be...and hopefully the matter is resolved soon or he might have to tap into his bitcoin once the emergency funds are depleted.. which surely should not be a place that any newbie investor wants to get for at least a couple of cycles, if possible... and yeah once a newbie get through one or two cycles, then he might start to gradually be considered no longer a newbie, unless he has been fucking up and fucking around so much that he is not able to graduate to non-newbie status... which is totally something that he should be able to work towards avoiding.. absent some very tragic circumstances that sometimes do end up happening to people that would allow for the excuse of not having had graduated to the honor of no-longer-newbie status.

Quote from: MusaPk on Today at 05:55:02 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on January 09, 2025, 07:20:55 PM

Surely some folks have attorneys or other people they trust in their lives with the most intimate of details, and there can be a variety of ways for persons to make sure that they have some kind of a successorship system in place. Trusted persons might have some or all of the material, and trusted persons might not even know the complete contents of the materials that they hold if there might be a sealed envelope or a safe or maybe there would be instructions to contact another trusted person (named Benny) for further instructions or for other parts of the puzzle.

i am not suggesting that there is any ONE correct way, even though I am suggesting that some people may well not end up adequately putting systems in place or keeping the information up-to-date if there might be some papers with passwords, there might be a failure to update the sheet after some of the passwords end up needing to be changed.

You missed the point which I was trying to say. What is practice till now is that one a person dies his left over money and assets are distributed according to his will, in case there is no will different countries have laws in place for that. Like where I live, if a person dies his property is distributed to his parents and family (wife/children) in case the deceased is married or to his parents and brothers/sisters in case deceased is single.
While this won't be the case with Bitcoin. One has to make sure he hands over keys and necessary details to person he trust most in his life, so that in case he dies his loved one can takeover Bitcoins and they are not lost forever on the Bitcoin blockchain. To my knowledge there is no LAW in place in my country that defines how Bitcoins will be distributed to next of kin.
Why taking a risk, why not tell your next of kin about details of your Bitcoins in your life.

What you are saying does not negate anything that I said.

The extent to which you choose to incorporate others in the process of guarding your seeds or passing them down remains your choice, and the extent to which you believe that your choices are hindered by current legal practices within your country is also something that may or may not be something that would motivate someone in another jurisdiction, and you might even end up consulting with folks who have bad ideas about the extent to which your practice should be guided by legal parameters of your country.

Your choice to tell someone details about your bitcoin or to have pieces of information that has to get put together are also discretionary matters that may well have a lot of options, yet the fact that we have a lot of options, still does not take away a likely factual reality that there are likely going to continue to be a lot of bitcoin (private key access) that are lost forever due to inadequate successorship systems.. There are also going to be some coiners who lose some or all of their BTC based on trusting people that they should have not trusted.. or providing information in ways that might have had disclosed too much too soon. I am not even proclaiming to have the answers to these various situations that might evolve, yet my earlier response to you seem to have had been aimed to suggest that what you were saying was not the ONLY way to deal with successorship matters, even if you might have had concluded that you have already figured out some kind of a sufficient successorship arrangement for your own level of balance.

Whether I sufficiently get your (earlier) point or understand what you are saying may well be another totally separate matter.

Quote from: sotelorene on Today at 05:57:54 PM

Quote from: bestcandy on Today at 03:54:48 AM

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Backing up ones wallet and passing instructions or information to heir or next of kin is not actually a bad idea and just like you said there are things we can not be sure or certain about because we are just human but the problem is sometimes human being can be unpredictable, though there are some heir or next of kin that no matter what they saw in your wallet they can never move or tempted to eliminate or still what is inside because of the ethics they have but some too even with their ethics they will look for a way to do something funny. However, the fact still remains that if you didn't pass the necessary information or instructions to the heir or next of kin and peradventure something bad happens to the investor off course the asset will be loss but it will be better if an heir take it than for it to waste.

If no heir takes the coins, then the coins get distributed to all bitcoin holders, and so then scarcity of bitcoin increases by the quantity of coins no longer available. It is not necessarily a horrible alternative, even though surely many people would prefer to have some more specific direction towards sharing their wealth or choosing how their wealth might be distributed once they pass or become incapacitated.

Quote from: DubemIfedigbo001 on Today at 07:23:09 PM

For my non-custodial wallet, she knows where it's stored in my house, but she cannot have access to it until I'm no more because I've safeguarded it very well and no one access that environment anyhow. I also trust her not to gain undue access to the seed phrases without my consent.

Of course a hardware wallet (what you mentioned as a non-custodial wallet) and a seed phrase are different things. There also is usually some kind of a pincode to enter into the hardware wallet. of course, if some damage or inability to access the hardware wallet happens, then the funds could still be accessed by the seed words... another thing is that separate wallets can be created by the use of passphrases.. so passphrases can also be important to protect funds, but they create an additional level of complexity that could be lost.

Quote from: DubemIfedigbo001 on Today at 07:23:09 PM

It's also important that you don't tell much of your family members about your logins, but enlighten them on it's availability with your most trusted person and In the event of your demise, everybody would be involved and follow your direction on sharing formula, so the person with the details cannot achieve everything.

I believe when people know too much about something, they get unduly attached and desperate for it.

I agree with this, but it still can be difficult to figure out a good balance, and surely sometimes our information will change too.. such as you mentioned if you marry, then you might want your new spouse or kids to have the information.. or maybe you still might want your younger sister.. and have her serve as a gatekeeper.., yet if something happens to your younger sister, then you might need a backup.. but sure if something happens to her there is potentially time to fix the matter. I am not saying that I know the answer in regards to how much balance is good or better.

JJG have said it all. Financial approach Bitcoin investors is a key factor to making a good investment in Bitcoin. It's possible to have a discretionary income before making investment in Bitcoin but to make your investment in Bitcoin more sustainable there is need to sustain your discretionary income so that other financial needs can be handle easily without affecting your investment in Bitcoin as result of being obligated to sell your Bitcoin in other to sustain your inevitable financial responsibilities.
Character and financial approach of investors should be put in check to be able to hold your Bitcoin for long time with the expectation of making a good profit in the future when the investment is ripe to yield a good rate of return.