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Generally, a period of 4 to 10 years is good for investing, as long-term investments can increase in value over time. This type of approach should also be taken when investing in Bitcoin, where you have to wait a long time to realize a profit. In the case of Bitcoin, its price can fluctuate at different times, but it can be a profitable opportunity for those who invest with a long-term perspective.

If you plan to cash out your Bitcoin in 5 years, then this can be considered a similar trade. Because the price of Bitcoin can sometimes change rapidly, and it can be a very short time to realize a profit in just 5 years. However, if you invest in a valuable asset like Bitcoin for the long term, it can become more valuable over time.

For example, in 2010, Bitcoin was worth only a few cents, but by 2025 it will be considered a very important and valuable asset. This proves that with patience and proper planning in long-term investments, it is possible to earn good profits from Bitcoin.

Therefore, if you look at Bitcoin as a long-term investment, it can be a strong and profitable opportunity where you can see its value increase over time. So we should not wait to invest in Bitcoin. Every second counts.

If a person transitions from BTC accumulation and then maybe a bit of a holding period (and/or maintenance) and then to something like a long term sustainable withdrawal, then that sounds more like an investment to me, rather than a trade.

I suppose a person could have a long time horizon, yet if they are just planning to get in and then get out, then from my thinking it becomes more difficult to classify it as an investment, even though sure, the longer the period, then sometimes it still might make sense to reallocate and to conclude that enough time was spent in asset 1 and perhaps to consume or move it to some other investment.. .. but yeah, at some point, I suppose we want to be able to live and to consume, so then that might no longer be an investment because we might have some BIG purchases or maybe even a cashflow that we might have in mind that we consider to be more stable than the cashflow from bitcoin since bitcoin's spot price has tended to be quite volatile and likely to continue to be volatile into the future.

Another thing is that once we are in an investment like bitcoin, and historically after a cycle or two, there had been so many multiples (and even magnitudes) of returns on the investment, which I consider to lend even more credence to a lack of justification to be pulling out a bunch of value at once, instead of just pulling out decent amounts (such as even 10% per year), still live quite well, and it still may well end up your BTC is gaining in value faster than your withdrawal rate.. so no need to deplete the value, unless there is some kind of an age or a health kind of need to begin to deplete the principle with a larger withdrawal rate.

I completely agree with you, because if someone invests in Bitcoin and then gradually withdraws money from that investment, then it is definitely a kind of long-term investment strategy. By systematically withdrawing money over time instead of withdrawing the entire amount at once, the capital remains safe and its value continues to increase. As a result, on the one hand, as the money needed for living has increased, on the other hand, the capital is also growing.

I did this especially when we invested in Bitcoin and now our goal is to secure our future. However, if we do not withdraw too much money at once, our capital can be quickly depleted, because the price of Bitcoin is always fluctuating. If we withdraw 10% or 15% of our money every year, not only will our necessary expenses be covered, but our investment capital will also increase somewhat, because the price of Bitcoin increases quite quickly.

Furthermore, withdrawing large amounts of money at once from a volatile asset like Bitcoin can be very risky. For example, if you withdraw the full amount of 1 Bitcoin now, but the value of Bitcoin doubles or triples next year, you will lose that potential profit. Therefore, withdrawing money gradually, such as 10% per year, can be a good strategy. This will allow you to get a permanent benefit from your investment and continue your lifestyle for a good reason.

In this way, you will be able to save money in the long run.
You can continue to invest. And your life will become easier to manage.
However, if you are facing health and old age problems. Therefore, you can withdraw the deposit as per your needs.

I understand that in my most recent posts I have been waffling a bit on distinctions between investing and trading, since I recognize that there had been times that I had been too strict in my own descriptions, especially there can be some areas that end up overlapping.. and so surely it helps if the investment timeline is 4 years or longer and it also helps if there is not any kind of rush to withdraw large amounts at a time..

I also understand that once a bitcoin investment is largely in place and it is mostly either sustaining its value and/or growing in value (also needing to attempt to account for debasement of fiat), then these would seem to be more investment practices rather than trading practices, even though once the investment is largely in place, there can be trading within it without really jeopardizing the overall value of the investment that would largely be growing or even having core amounts of the invest that does not get withdrawn, it just largely sits and continues to gain in value .

There are many threads, including this one, that has more of a focus on whether and how to get started rather than how to manage your investment after you have been in it for a cycle or two... so both getting started and how to maintain an accumulation practice for a whole cycle seems to be the first part that many newbies need to get through before they reach the dilemma (and the various practices and additional options) that comes from considering how to manage their BTC holdings after they had spent a decent amount of time building it up to a status of sufficient and/or overaccumulation.

Yet the question of trade versus investment still likely remains relevant because of course, if a newbie cannot even get into the mindset of investing rather than trading, then we might be talking past each other, and I don't give too many shits about trying to help anyone to figure out how to trade bitcoin, they can do that on their own, since it can be a crapshoot and if folks are coming to bitcoin to gamble or trade, then that's on them to figure out those kinds of details and/or to make their guesses of BTC price direction based on those trading/gambling kinds of considerations. The investor does not need to get caught up in that and just largely start out putting in money into bitcoin on a regular basis for 4-10 years or longer and just keep building and then once the BTC holdings is built to a certain level, reassess options at that point.. and presumptively the BTC price goes up during the whole process, even though it is not guaranteed to go up, yet bitcoin is likely amongst one of the best, if not the best, asymmetric bet to the upside, and I am using the term bet in regards to long term, which asymmetric bet means that the most that as long as leverage is not employed, then the most that can be lost is 100%, yet the upside potential seems to be quite great (even though not guaranteed).

Quote from: Cryptmuster on Today at 09:29:41 AM

Quote from: lizarder on Today at 03:43:51 AM

Every cycle that occurs always results in the statement that it is too late to start and they miss the best opportunity to grow their ability to make money. On the other hand people start doing something about their interest in investment and even though the price is getting higher they are looking at the next ATH to make a profit in that period. In the next four or five years we will still hear such things and to me this is something that is normal because they did not know bitcoin before.

As time goes by we realize that bitcoin has made tremendous progress and maybe it is time for people to start showing interest based on the knowledge they have learned about the journey of bitcoin, thus people will come to a conclusion based on careful consideration to start with.

There are those who will just watch and will not be able to start buying, I understand that there are cycles and it is better to buy in a bear market, but they will not buy even then, because every time in a bear market the price of bitcoin will become higher and higher.

Ok. We know that there are bear markets and bull markets, yet a lot of that is irrelevant, since we are talking about right now. Are you starting to invest right now, or are you waiting? It does not matter to say, "it would have been better to buy yesterday." Who gives any shits about yesterday? Yesterday is gone. We are starting from today, and are we (as a no coiner or a low coiner) buying today or not? or are we waiting? I presented a hypothetical earlier in this thread.. maybe you want to answer the hypothetical?

Quote from: Cryptmuster on Today at 09:29:41 AM

Maybe they will be ready to buy when the price of bitcoin becomes more stable, when volatility decreases and its profitability will be only a few percent per year, this will be convenient for those who are looking for stable assets for investment.

Sure people are going to wait for sure. There will be people just getting into bitcoin 10 years from now, and I have my doubts if bitcoin is going to be stable at that time, sure the market cap should have had grown, but it still might not becoming stable, even in 10 years or more.

I have my own lil assessment that bitcoin has a value of around 1,000x or more greater than gold, so right now we are maybe around 1/9th the value of gold (referring to market cap), and so sure the larger bitcoin's market cap, then the greater bitcoin's stability, and bitcoin could catch up to gold and pass it with them both going up and/or gold coming down in value.. but at the same time there may well become more stability in bitcoin while it is moving between 10x greater than gold's market cap and then even more stability around 100x greater than gold's market cap.. and then perhaps even more stability around 1,000x greater than gold's market cap, and sure we could progress quickly through these levels, yet it could well take bitcoin 50-200 years or more to actually reach 1,000x gold's market cap, so that seems like too far in the distance in terms of realistically dealing with the extent to which people might need to start to buy bitcoin now, which seems that the punchline is that you are saying that regular people are not buying now, but they should be...

....and at the same time, you are saying that dumb shit about it is better to buy in bear markets blah blah blah.. .. we are not talking about bear markets, we are talking about now.. and sure a bear market might come and it might not, and so I find it quite problematic even if we might speculate that a bear market might come, we still have to figure out what are we going to do right now, if we happen to either be a no coiner or a low coiner.. and yeah, low coiners do not get rescued from the dilemma merely because they might have 0.06742362 BTC, unless they really believe that they have stacked enough and they can sit back and relax based on their already achieve BTC accumulation efforts.