Quote from: iBaba on January 22, 2025, 08:11:52 PM

Quote from: fredericktaylor on January 22, 2025, 06:56:54 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on January 22, 2025, 05:44:08 AM

I personally think that inconsistencies in income and expenses could be reasons for holding back value rather than investing right away, so surely poor people have disadvantages over rich people in terms of even making sure that they have enough income to be able to invest into bitcoin, since sometimes there is not enough income to work with in terms of making sure that they are able to build an emergency fund, yet the poor person likely needs to the emergency fund more than the rich person, yet if your point was that the poor person is not able to hold any money back for an emergency fund, then the poor person is going to end up getting fucked when he has any little emergency and he has to tap into his investment prior to his intention. so emergency funds are just as important (if not more important) for poor people as compared with rich people... but yeah, it is likely that a lot of poor people stay poor because they end up using their investment as their emergency funds rather than making sure that they have enough flexibility in their cashflow to make sure that they never have to sell their BTC at a time that is not of their own choosing.. which becomes way more dangerous with any investment that is volatile, like bitcoin.

I agree with your. I prefer long-term planning with Bitcoin, so from my point of view it becomes a bit difficult for poor people to invest long-term, because they don't have enough money to invest. However, it is more important for poor people to have an emergency fund than for rich people, as their income is less stable and unexpected expenses can further damage their finances. If a poor person wants to invest in Bitcoin, he must have an emergency fund because his long-term investment can solve the problem from the emergency fund in case of financial problems, that's why basically every person needs an emergency fund.

I have a slightly different opinion to this discussion. For me, I would like to understand it clearer what category of poverty we are discussing here and what is the basis or criteria that can be used to identify who's poor and the category of people who can be regarded as poor yet not destitute (meaning they can still spare out some little percentage of their funds for emergency purposes).

For me, I've classified poverty into 5 different categories in my own opinion, starting with the class of Relative Poverty. These class of people are relatively poor, while they may meet some basic needs, they are regarded relatively poor because they are significantly poorer than those with average standard of living within our society. These class of individuals, although are poor people, will have the capacity to raise some funds for long-term DCA investment while they still have spare money for emergency, however little.

You seem to misunderstand the concept of emergency funds. Emergency funds is something an investor can build up, so an emergency fund should be built up to a minimum of 3 months of expenses. Once the emergency fund is built up to the minimum level, then it does not have to be built up further, and the emergency fund would hopefully never be in need of being used, since it should ONLY be used for true emergencies, which means that it's likely you would need more than the emergency funds so that you don't have to tap into the emergency fund for non-emergencies.

An emergency fund does not need to be established prior to starting to invest into bitcoin. I would imagine that many folks (even poor people) are in the habit of having extra money, such as 2-6 weeks of extra cash based on their knowledge that fluctuations in income and expenses are likely a regular thing for many people, if not everyone, yet poor people likely have less free money available.

Once a newbie bitcoiner has built up strong back up funds, then he will be in a position to be more aggressive with his bitcoin buying, whether that bitcoin buying is weekly or otherwise..

Quote from: iBaba on January 22, 2025, 08:11:52 PM

The second category of poor people is the Working Poor people. These people are still regarded poor because they earn wages that are incapable and insufficient to lift them above the poverty line. Example are cleaners and other blue-collar jobs. Although, they are workers and might be placed on wages but that job is not able to lift them above the poverty line. They may also be able to squeeze themselves into DCA approach of investments with the little funds at their disposal after taking out their needs.

The difference between your first two categories is not really saying anything, and you seem to be suggesting that either one has discretionary income, which sure, no problem.. Either someone has discretionary income or not, and so no one is able to invest into bitcoin without discretionary income, otherwise they would be trading rather than investing.

Quote from: iBaba on January 22, 2025, 08:11:52 PM

The third class are the Rural Poor individuals. These are poor people who live in the rural areas and mostly depend on farming on small piece of land or become low-income laborers to others in their farms. They often have limited access to infrastructure and other basic amenities. These class of people can barely muscle out funds to cater for their basic and extra needs and only have funds to eat from hand to mouth. Their resources are oftentimes limited to food and shelter and could barely keep some funds for emergency. These kind of poor people will find it difficult to invest in Bitcoin and other cryptocurrency.

Ok... sure. this group does not seem to have discretionary income, so there would be a need for discretionary income before anyone would be able to invest, and surely investing is 4-10 years or longer, so I imagine someone like this would have to be able to stock the money away, if it is $10 or some other amount for 4-10 years or longer, so yeah, they would need to have some kind of an emergency fund so they don't have to touch their BTC investment.

Quote from: iBaba on January 22, 2025, 08:11:52 PM

The fourth class are the Urban Poor individuals, while they may lookalike with the Rural Poor people, they probably earn more than the rural poor people but with limited access to job opportunities, clean water and affordable housing. These poor people spend most of their incomes on house rents and Healthcare can could barely secure extra funds for emergency. These set of people might be able muscle out funds for investments but even when they participate in DCA, they cannot keep up with the investment for a long time.

It hardly seems to make any point to separate group 4 and group 3, since either they have discretionary income or they don't.. .. The existence of discretionary income is the dividing line, rather than describing what kind of lifestyle they have and the various differences in the uncertainty of either their income or their expenses.

Quote from: iBaba on January 22, 2025, 08:11:52 PM

The last one is the Destitute. I termed them the Destitute because they become the class of people with worse and extreme form of poverty. They are homeless and lack all forms of amenities and only survive on begging or charity for survival. These set of individuals cannot provide a two square meal talk more of having funds for emergency purposes or investments. No matter how economical these set of people become, they cannot still raise funds for emergency purposes or investments.

Ok.. with this one you are just saying that they absolutely have no discretionary income, but still it hardly makes any difference between this one and 3 or 4 or even your discussion of 1 and 2 are not really that great either, since it is better to be talking about them in terms of their discretionary income and how they manage it, and yeah, the more poor they are, then the less chances that they can muster up any discretionary income, and even if they can, they cannot invest for 4-10 years or longer, so the most would be their attempt to trade/gamble, which surely we are not talking about trading in this thread and most of us are recommending against trading of bitcoin, even though surely people will still trade/gamble bitcoin.. which surely is a risky thing to do.. yet if we are ruling out that we are talking about trading gambling, then it anyone who ends up being whatever level of poor has to get to a level of not ONLY having discretionary income but discretionary income that rises to the level of a 4-10 year or more investment timeline.. which any of your categories of poor might not be in a position to be able to dedicate their investment to 4-10 years or longer, so they would need to be able to dedicate that level of confidence, even if it is ONLY $10 per week, yet I would think that if they are able too build up an bitcoin and an emergency fund that is 3 months of their expenses, then they could start investing more aggressively in bitcoin once establishing that level of back up funds... and of course, the large the bitcoin investment grows, then likely the more worried that investors should be getting to make sure that they have enough back up funds to protect their bitcoin investment so that they do not have to sell any of their BTC at a time that is not completely of their own choosing.

Quote from: iBaba on January 22, 2025, 08:11:52 PM

However, haven't mentioned all of these, whether you're rich or poor, one thing you must also consider is one's ability to control his spending and manage some funds for investment. People who are poor and are still capable of raising funds for investments can actually go into the DCA approach effectively. They can decide to participate in crypto investments but with a very prudent financial discipline and management.

We are not talking about crypto or shitcoins in this thread.. so I doubt any of us are recommending any kind of involvement in crypto.. ONLY bitcoin... and also yes, there is a need to both figure out discretionary income, and whether it exists, and then to make sure that there aren't mistakes about actually having discretionary income, since if someone does not have discretionary income then he should not be investing into bitcoin.

Quote from: iBaba on January 22, 2025, 08:11:52 PM

Quote from: MusaPk on January 22, 2025, 06:57:37 PM

Quote from: Ryu_Ar1 on January 22, 2025, 04:29:34 PM

Honestly, I'm starting to get fed up with all the talk about coins like this because it seems like too many people are blinded by the temporary hype that they don't realize it won't last.
In some sub forums there is also a lot of discussion about trump again, trump again and I'm getting bored with discussing coins that in the end will not develop apart from those who are trying to raise and drop it quickly as usual.

The conditions remain the same when indeed we are trying to find the best from the investment process that we do so why approach coins like this especially for the hype that in the end it will all come back to the original price even though it cannot be denied that the increase will come quickly but the destruction will come quickly because the shitcoin scheme will remain the same all without exception.
So in the end, don't be too provoked just because of hype and fomo let alone have ridiculous beliefs like some people who say with full awareness that trump can surpass bitcoin Roll Eyes

It's hard to digest sense lol.

Every alt has one thing in common which is they have a cycle like this:
1. It is launched.
2. It goes up.
3. and goes down and stay down forever.
Despite the fact that there are so many Atls that have eaten money of people, still people are investing money in coins like Trump and Manila. they might be the one who don't do proper research or study the past incidents before investing in such alts or the one who live in denial. Since we are discussing how to invest in Bitcoin and HODL here in this thread, our main focus must be about defining strategy on how to invest in Bitcoin and HODL for long term.

It will be wrong if you generalized these criteria on all alt coins. Not all altcoins must obey the third criteria you mentioned. Although I will align more with you when you popularize this with memecoins like the $TRUMP & $MELANIA memecoins than just generalizing it on all altcoins. What will you then do with strong altcoins like the Solana and Ethereum coins. While all memecoins are known as altcoins, it will be improper to regard or assume all altcoins as memecoins.

Yeah but fuck them all. There is no need to discuss them here or to discuss their characteristics or to try to suggest that some shitcoins are less shitty than other shitcoins. They are all shitcoins and off topic here, even if MusaPk might not have characterized their pattern accurately.

Quote from: iBaba on January 22, 2025, 08:11:52 PM

Hitherto, I won't advise any newbie or amateur in investment to put their capitals on any altcoin without doing a proper investigation of the market trajectory of such coin and as for the memecoins, it's a total gambling for me, so it will remain a no go area of investment for me. Historically, memecoins have been regarded as pump and dump projects, so there's no need going through such risks when you have your history note.

Well, at least your recognize that shitcoins are shitcoins... We are deviating from the topic to be getting into that nonsense regarding which of them might be less bad and for what reasons.. in the end, who cares, it's not on topic, even if there might happen to be some piece of shit altcoin that happens to not be a scam. It doesn't matter.