Quote from: philipma1957 on January 24, 2025, 05:29:54 PM

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On an issue like this, which doesn't involve the USA directly, I think even the allies could go their own way.

No they will follow the USA on it but if and when a crypto winter comes they will switch to cbdc.

To me we get 3-5 years here and it may turn really bad after that.

but I am fairly sure about the next 3-5 years.

which of course is a first for me.

I do not write about 3-5 years of goodness for crypto (crypto is the trumpeter's word not mine)

Ever so take it with a grain of salt or maybe a whole salt shaker.

Brilliant, @phil
A small correction...maybe 3-3.5 years...before the 'fear' of what comes next...the opposite wave of executive orders, maybe.

that said, i made the following conclusions for myself;

1. New pres does not care about bitcoin per se
2. Because of #1, I don't see a tax free bitcoin..not even a 1% chance.
3. Because of #2, a sell plan needs to be developed and executed within the next 3-3.5 years.
But, heck, i probably just sell some in a panic in 2026 Wink

When you (or other WO members) talk or worry about taxes on Bitcoin/crypto, there are always solutions to reduce them or even bring them down to 0% (or close).

-If your holdings/net worth are significant enough, consider changing your residency and moving to a more tax-friendly country.

-Of course, for those who are 'unlucky' enough to have U.S. citizenship, it's a bit more complicated but still possible from VHNWI+. For example, invest in Portugal or other countries offering citizenship within 1–5 years. You could also consider adding a second passport through a Citizenship by Investment (CBI) program (e.g., in the Caribbean or Turkey) or even in LATAM as a Plan B for a third passport. Eventually, you can renounce U.S. citizenship, and not be taxed anymore on your passport citizenship.

What I’m saying might seem extreme to some, but at a certain level of wealth, achieving tax freedom (and personal freedom) makes sense—especially if you feel concerned or annoyed by tax burdens. Of course, all of this comes with sacrifices (moving to another country, starting a new life, etc.). But life is always about choices; you can't have everything without sacrificing something in return.

Uncle Sam has already figured out a way to get their taxes should you decide to give up residency/renounce citizenship with an exit tax. They look at your assets and consider a paper disposal and then you owe that to us gov.

https://www.thetaxadviser.com/issues/2024/sep/bidding-farewell-to-us-citizenship-understanding-the-exit-tax.html

For me to leave the USA because of btc tax avoidance I would need around 200 btc

I don't have anything near 200 btc. I am locked into the USA and will remain so for the rest of my life. I have already accepted that.

Are you saying to live somewhere else you would need that many or is that just to pay your exit tax? Seems rather high in either case.

no but my wife and i have multiple us federal pensions. there value is about 3-4 million bucks.

yeah they pay it out over our lifetimes but if I want an equivalent deal and freedom i would need 3-4 million bucks after tax.

then the home and the investments are one million. so to equal that i need one million after tax.

and if I had 80 coins cashed and paid the tax then set myself up in say australia 🇦🇺 or Italy .

I would be equal to what I am here in USA.

my wife would not do it due to here dementia ailed brother. So I tacked on the extra 120 coins.

If I had 100 coins right now I would do it and it would be enough. As i would be about 2 million usd more then I am now.

my wealth would be far more flexible. as my pension and my wifes pension is very nice but it is kind of like gold handcuffs.

I was driving to Costco shortly after I wrote my reply and it dawned on me that you were retired and likely had 401Ks and pensions that would add to your net worth. Also i totally forgot about your brother-in-law. There is an ~$800k exclusion on the cap gains per person and you should still be able to collect the pensions and pay tax on them as you withdraw (there would likely be a withholding tax similar to what we face for dividends on US stocks) rather than paying on the pension value when you renounce... I am as far from an expert as they come though and this is not a game I would want to play unless there were some really serious problems in my remaining a citizen.