Quote from: DaRude on Today at 11:30:27 AM

Quote from: paxmao on Today at 11:03:53 AM

Quote from: DaRude on Today at 08:10:39 AM

Quote from: paxmao on February 27, 2025, 11:21:01 PM

@dumBAss, look, your leader has left you alone defending shit...

https://youtu.be/p3klUel1mX4

Asked about calling Zelensky a "dictator" he said, literally "did I say that?" Grin

Quote from: DaRude on February 27, 2025, 01:55:16 PM

Quote from: paxmao on February 26, 2025, 11:30:58 PM

Quote from: DaRude on February 26, 2025, 12:34:13 PM

How it started

5 May 2022
[...]

4 Sep 2024
[...]
...

And now...
[...]

Ahh agent Boris is doing what he does the best, don't negotiate, sell your land and then go into economical enslavement for few generations. Now Ukrainian history needs to be rewritten to mention the dark times and how terrible Ukrainians lived on the land they owned back in 2013 but now they should be grateful for this opportunity for such a "deal" Roll Eyes

How it started...

2014 - Ruzzia invades and annexes Crimea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_occupation_of_Crimea#:~:text=It%20annexed%20Crimea%20on%2018,which%20to%20attack%20mainland%20Ukraine.

I am sure you understand that 2014 is previous to 2022. Was not Boris Mayor of London at that time?

Just to put this into perspective.... Let's say that Ruzza takes some islands from Japan. Japan tries to establish an alliance with... let's say Australia. Then Ruzzia says that "it is a provocation" and invades Japan.

It is not a provocation, is purely self-defence.

I am still waiting for you to provide the list of international observers that validate the legitimacy of Putin as "elected" leader of Ruzzia.

...

Exactly, it all started in 2014, now what served as the catalyst that lead to all these deaths, Ukraine loosing land, and 50% mineral rights on its remaining land? And what role did US play back then, to now claim 50% ownership of Ukrainian critical rare minerals?

[...]
I won't engage in your whataboutism on Putin.

However you did whattabout about Zelensky's legitimacy. Why not about Putin? I am not surprised to see that you have a double standard. It is to be expected when you are trying to make things look what they are not... like all the time, in every post.

Yes, it did not start with a visit of Boris, nor Nulland nor anyone else. It started with Ruzzia invading Crimea, which is opposite to everything you have said since the begining of this thread.

On this one about the money spent, one thing is Trump's narrative TODAY (changes nearly every minute). They US knows very well what they were doing: I put a negligible part of my PIB into something called the Ruzzo-Ukranian war, I suffer no US personel losses, I basically give Ukraine little material and in exchange I blast thorugh Ruzzia's reputation, more than half of their stocks of armour and war stocks (thousands of units) and send Ruzzia into an economic crisis. I call that a great, cheap deal. There is only one winner here.

And now Trump goes even further than that and get Europe to send troops and money to contain and keep Ruzzia wondering if Ukraine will attack and try to recover territory. Masterful.

Why all this....It has a name, it starts with "Chi" and ends with "na". If it goes to war, Ruzzia will not be able to help.

On the narratives, in fact, it changes so much that you are already giving old news:

The US-Ukraine deal will most likely end with a joint venture of the US in Ukraine. After all, what good is to have mineral and energy resources if you do not have money to build the infrastructure. It is a decent deal for both sides. Also, Trump mentioned that despite not being US troops, there will be US interests in Ukraine - if I were Putin, I would be very wary of interfering with that.

The Prime Minister of the UK meet today with the POTUS and, in a joint statement, it was clear that that the money invested in the Ukrainian war was mostly grants and it shall not be returned as credit. It would probably be impossible anyway.

About Ruzzia and its "gains", I am again not surprised you paint this as a victory. I do not mind, the truth is there for everyone to see.

Quote from: Reynaldo on February 27, 2025, 09:19:18 PM

it's incredible how diplomatic Macron tries to be with United States. Always attempting the middle ground approach while getting nowhere. Meanwhile Zelensky is stuck in this impossible position having to beg for support while his country gets hammered.

What's even more fascinating is watching Trump basically shrug off the whole situation. The guy doesn't even pretend to care and seems perfectly fine aligning with Putin's interests. Lmao

France has large economic ties with Ruzzia, like most of Europe to be frank. Europe never wanted this war.

Macron is one of the smartest leaders of Europe, albeit more pedantic than a Classic Humanities PhD. With Trump you just do not say what he does not want to hear.

So US sponsors Maidan, conveniences Ukrainians to suicide themselves on Russia, and now takes 50% of Ukrainian minerals (yeah good luck spinning that as a positive for UA). Russia takes about 20% of Ukrainian land, possibly more if Ukraine doesn't get US security guarantees. EU wasted all this money to support Â Ukraine and is now on the hook to continues supporting Ukraine without US, and without Russian resources. And what do Ukrainians get, the ones so happily accepting those cookies at Maidan? A push to mobilize younger lads and Amid low birth rates, war and emigration, Ukraine's numbers are dwindling So you're saying that Ukraine was just used in this big game?

Still waiting for any proof of Putins legitimacy.

US has played Ruzzia all along yes.

US will have a joint venture with Ukraine. Ukraine will profit from investment and jobs, the US will benefit from a reliable source of strategic minerals.

If the US invests in Ukraine, the security is "guaranteed". Unless you think that Putin would try to take e.g. a mine owned by an US company.

EU has invested money in defence and I would not be surprised if Ukraine is given a preferential deal with the EU and could eventually join. Again, Ukraine would get investment and jobs, countries in EU would profit from having a partner who can stop Ruzzia and has plenty of room to grow economically.

The cause of Ukraine seeking a western alliance is that Ruzzia invaded Crimea and annexed it in 2014, not the "cookies".

Ukrainians did not suicide, they fought for having a country that is independent from Ruzzia and they seem to have achieved that goal.

Ruzzia has a population crisis no smaller than Ukraines. Ukranians will return once conditions are adequate.

Ruzzia has taken land from Ukraine, that is obvious. The economy of Ruzzia does not allow for developing the resources of that land and large parts are a wasteland full of minefields.

Wow you actually are trying to spin in as a positive. If it's that great, every country should get in line to give up 50% of their resources to US. Why Ukraine didn't give up 50% of their resources earlier, hell why just 50% Ukraine should give up 75% because that would even be better!! I'm sure African countries would love such a deal, oh wait...

Umm but Russia was never against Ukraine joining EU! Oh right i see what you're doing now, yes Zelenskyy's great negotiation skills managed to convince everyone to let Ukraine to join EU just for giving up 50% of it's resources to US. What a great leader Z is!

How convenient, you're forgetting that US were the ones supporting Maidan in the first place (before Crimea), and now Ukraine lost a good chunk of population, a good chunk of it's land, and 50% of it's resources on it's remaining land. I'm sure the history books will judge it as a great Ukrainian victory, and great leader Zelenskyy to not sign or follow any peace deals and allow this happen to his country.

I am describing what seems to be the current status of negotiations. There is no positive spin and very little opion.

US has confirmed their intention to partner with Ukraine for mineral resouces. Not opinion.

Ruzzia has a galloping inflation, interest rates at 21% and a population crisis. Not opinion.

EU has always shown interest in trading with Ukraine. Not opinion.

I am not forgetting anything. Ruzzia invaded Crimea - not opinion. Any country suffering such invasion would consider their options.

There is no positive spin, this is what is happening from the Ukranian side. Nobody would call this a victory, nobody would call this a defeat.

Still awaiting for any proof of Putin's legitimacy to govern.