Quote from: Agbe on March 07, 2025, 08:40:07 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on March 07, 2025, 06:51:39 PM

A low coiner is anyone who has not gotten enough BTC, and an overwhelming majority of the world's population are either no coiners or low coiners and many low coiners don't even realize that they are low coiners because they happen to have a few coins. You, bittraffic, might be one of those smug low coiners who believe that they have enough when they do not.

I like this conceptual distinguishing the two investors. And from your definition, those who are earning from the forum are also classified as low coiners. Because many 99% are depending only on the forum campaigns earning and not really buying. And as you said the low coiners are more among the investors of bitcoin in the investment of bitcoin across the world. Many claim to have bitcoin but when you check it is just a fraction of it.

Over the past few years, I have been changing my own definition of low coiner, since even within the category of low coiner there are likely those who are trying as hard as they can to aggressively stack bitcoin on a regular basis, and there are those who are not really trying hard enough because they do not realize that they are a low coiner (or they think that they have enough).

I am not sure if it would be better to have differing names for these two type of low coiners, since I used to suggest that guys who are stacking as hard as they can, they are not really no coiners, since they are stacking to the best of their abilities.

And, yeah, we should not be judging others, since each of us can ONLY try the best that we can based on our own financial and psychological circumstances, yet many of us still realize that there are a lot of people who purposefully remain low coiners and no coiners, so in that sense if we are merely a low coiner because we are still early, then there is still some better chances that at some point we may well be able to graduate out of the category of low coiner and reach a status of having enough coins or having more than enough bitcoin.

Quote from: BITCOIN4X on March 07, 2025, 08:57:58 PM

Quote from: ginsan on March 07, 2025, 07:43:32 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on March 07, 2025, 06:51:39 PM

~Snip

Yes sir, optimism must be there, especially if we invest in the long term, then everything we focus on we must convince ourselves that this is the best and will provide many benefits in the decades to come. In theory or data that we have seen so far or the last 10 years, of course there are many risks and we must admit it, the big risk is trusting assets to third parties and we can stay away from it to store assets in our own wallet.

Without knowing it well, perhaps we cannot be as optimistic as we are now about Bitcoin. I was not at all optimistic about bitcoin at first, even though bitcoin is clearly very different from other investment assets based on what has been explained. After getting to know Bitcoin and seeing it grow so rapidly, of course I can be very optimistic in the long term, whether as a store of value or a long-term investment.

Regarding storing bitcoin, it is certainly not recommended to store them online, let alone entrust them to third parties. Holders must store them in a personal wallet with the best security methods, regardless of how many bitcoin you currently have. There are too many risks in entrusting our bitcoin to third parties, so it is really not recommended.

There are a lot of risks with 3rd party custodians, yet no newbie should conclude that he has to start out with learning how to custody his bitcoin before he gets started buying bitcoin.

Sure, you can recommend whatever obstacles that you like. I personally believe that it is better to get started, even if some of us might end up beginning our bitcoin purchases with the holding of our coins with third parties. I think that it is a good goal for newbies to aim for putting most of his bitcoin within self-custodial wallets, yet I still do not consider self-custodial wallets to be a prerequisite in terms of getting started investing into bitcoin.

Quote from: I_Anime on March 07, 2025, 09:05:08 PM

Quote from: Agbe on March 07, 2025, 08:40:07 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on March 07, 2025, 06:51:39 PM

A low coiner is anyone who has not gotten enough BTC, and an overwhelming majority of the world's population are either no coiners or low coiners and many low coiners don't even realize that they are low coiners because they happen to have a few coins. You, bittraffic, might be one of those smug low coiners who believe that they have enough when they do not.

I like this conceptual distinguishing the two investors. And from your definition, those who are earning from the forum are also classified as low coiners. Because many 99% are depending only on the forum campaigns earning and not really buying. And as you said the low coiners are more among the investors of bitcoin in the investment of bitcoin across the world. Many claim to have bitcoin but when you check it is just a fraction of it.

Well is not everyone that can afford one BTC once and it's not necessary or fixed that one should start with one BTC and above ,

There is almost no reason to talk at all about having a goal of getting to 1 BTC, except for people who are already pretty well to do.

It is best to talk in terms of practicalities... and sure $10 might buy 10,000 satoshis or more, and so surely any person could start out with reasonable goals that are within their budgets, maybe they start out shooting for the accumulation of 1 million satoshis, and then they work towards 5 million or 10 million satoshis, which will be great accomplishments for a lot of people.

Surely, I am not proclaiming that anyone should purposefully create whimpy goals, yet I am suggesting that they should attempt to be realistic, and figure out ways to work their way up to higher and higher levels of satoshi accumulation - and surely they should be abler to realize that the value of the satoshis are going to be ongoingly changing with the dollar (fiat) prices, so their accumulation of satoshis might be abstract in terms of measuring in connection with dollars or even measuring them in the abstract, even though at some point, each of us may well be able to consider that the number of satoshis accumulated may also, at some point start to represent, years and years of the ability to pay our expenses, which may well be a bit more of a tangible goal, yet at the same time, a goal that might not be clearly within reach of a newbie, even if the newbie might attempt to project his investment into bitcoin for 4-10 years or more into the future.

Quote from: I_Anime on March 07, 2025, 09:05:08 PM

but with DCAing one can actually do that, those that are making some extra bucks in this forum through campaigns can also have enough bitcoin in their portfolio it all boils down to how persistent that investor is in his Bitcoin accumulation, there some folks that have been in this forum since 2021 earning through campaigns when Bitcoin price was still in the range of $20k , imagine you been paid $50 weekly then that would be 0.0025 BTC and that folks kept accumulating using is weekly pay without scraping a dime from it while he focus on his main business that help him handle his basic needs . Such folk would be able to gather such amount of Bitcoin over time , same goes for those that just started, your campaign earning can serve as a good DCAing , while you take care of your basic needs with your other or main source .

You are right 0.0025 bitcoin is 250,000 satoshis... so yeah, if they had been stacking 250k satoshis every week, they may well would have had been able to add up decent amounts of satoshis, even though surely now, maybe those same campaigns might ONLY be paying somewhere in the ballpark of 50k to 80k satoshis per week, and so it can take a bit longer to stack a million or more satoshis, even though many of us realize that stacking for 4 years or more can start to really add up to a lot of satoshis whether we are ONLY relying on signature campaign payments or we might be attempting t to supplement our signature campaign payments with additional BTC purchases.

I know that historically, I used to criticize some guys for ONLY relying on their signature campaigns to stack bitcoin, especially when it sometimes seems clear that they are capable of earning more money in the real world and to be able to stack additional sats... yet surely at the same time, each person has differing circumstances in terms of how much money he earns in the real world and the extent to which he even is able to live well without having to tap into his signature campaign funds from time to time for his real world expenses... though I will agree that sometimes the amounts that sometimes seem to NOT be very much may well end up adding up to quite significant amounts, especially after a cycle of two of persistent, consistent and regular stacking.

Quote from: Tauja on Today at 12:16:31 AM

Quote from: I_Anime on March 07, 2025, 09:05:08 PM

Well is not everyone that can afford one BTC once and it's not necessary or fixed that one should start with one BTC and above , but with DCAing one can actually do that, those that are making some extra bucks in this forum through campaigns can also have enough bitcoin in their portfolio it all boils down to how persistent that investor is in his Bitcoin accumulation, there some folks that have been in this forum since 2021 earning through campaigns when Bitcoin price was still in the range of $20k , imagine you been paid $50 weekly then that would be 0.0025 BTC and that folks kept accumulating using is weekly pay without scraping a dime from it while he focus on his main business that help him handle his basic needs . Such folk would be able to gather such amount of Bitcoin over time , same goes for those that just started, your campaign earning can serve as a good DCAing , while you take care of your basic needs with your other or main source .

Every investor is different, sometimes they can buy 10 btc at once and sometimes they can buy 1 btc at once and there are also those who buy gradually to reach 1 Btc. It all depends on the financial aspect of each investor because investors are also included in 3 categories, some are rich, middle class and some are simple.

None of us should presume the status of newbie investors, yet I am still going to proclaim that it is getting quite unrealistic for an overwhelming majority of normies to be believing that they need to reach 1 BTC in order to become well off in bitcoin. I think that they should just aim for what they can, and sure there are still some minority newbie to bitcoin folks who can consider 1 bitcoin as a reasonable goal that they will be able to reach within a year or so, yet the overwhelming majority should be creating goals that are much more reasonable, practical and achievable.

Quote from: Tauja on Today at 12:16:31 AM

Buying gradually is also not wrong because if the main target is for 1 btc they can start $50 routinely every day for a duration of 5 years if associated with a price of $90k. However, if they start with $50 every week they need 35 years to reach 1 btc at a price of $90k. But the price of bitcoin is not always the same so it's better to just start and buy routinely.

For sure, you are correct. We know that $200 per week would result in $10,400 invested over a year, and $104k invested after a year, so even with $200 per week, such person may or may not reach 1 whole BTC after 10 years of investing. So, in that regard, it seems to a bit outrageous to expect reaching 1 BTC in 10 years, especially if the guy likely has a budget of less than $200 per week.

I have no problem with guys setting aspirational targets that are high and potentially out of reach, yet at the same time, it seems to me that guys should be attempting to set reasonable and practical goals that can be achieved along the way in shorter timelines. In goal setting, it is a quite good to have goals that push us to high limits, yet also to have intermediary goals that both allow us to meet them, yet also help us to feel that we are making progress towards reaching the longer term aspirational goals, too.

Quote from: promise444c5 on Today at 01:05:59 AM

Quote from: Dump3er on March 07, 2025, 08:22:31 PM

The last few days were the best example in a long time that time in the market beats timing the market. The volatility was relatively significant, I am saying relatively because bitcoiners who have been around for a while know a different game than no coiners.
That is why the emotional aspect still comes into play here. I am used to bitcoin going down 10% in an hour or getting flash dumped or flash pumped. The day had come when I thought it doesn't matter whether I wait or not. Unless there is some profound analysis I can come up with based on my own research, but in reality there are countless of people having that informational advantage and exploiting it before I myself am getting close to cracking the intellectual nut...

I bet that some people thought it makes sense to wait when we quickly went below 80k and they thought it would go to 70k, then 60k, then 50k. This is how the brain mostly works for them. But if you have been around, bitcoin is as erratic as Trump I guess! Grin

(in the short term...), but with way more reasonable upside potential, hehe.

It wasn't the "best" example but one of example of how bitcoin volatility works, Bitcoin had faced worse so even with the recent dip we might not be seeing a real dip market but Panic, market reacting to some rumors &news and manipulations somehow..

Bitcoin could go back to even 50k~60k which is how crazy the market could get interm of volatility but it happened before doesn't mean it will happen again [ that's why people that wait to buy could be very wrong in their decision making, even though they could be lucky with history repeating itself so they call it beign smart which i don't agree ...but normally someone with enough accumulation could actually buy dips by waiting for some specificrange of buying points but don't get me wrong it's buying of dip which is totally different form someone waiting for the lowest bottom to buy, not for someone just starting out though] yet we are hoping the market to play according to history..

Hence, I don't see any emotion somehow, I see gamblers trying to make quick profit so when they can't get it quick they get frustrated and pull out even in loss , losing even out of what they've tried to gambling... newbies can also get trapped especially when they are being greedy.

To me, it seems way better to try to not overthink the matter, and surely most newbies should be striving to buy bitcoin on a weekly basis, no matter what for a whole cycle or more.

Sure, it might make some of the newbies feel psychologically better to hold back some of their money for buying on dips, yet there surely are trade offs with holding off higher quantities of value and allowing for the DCA amounts to suffer (to be less) in the process of waiting for dips that may well end up not happening.

It is even more problematic for people with less discretionary income to be holding back waiting for dips, when they probably should attempt to be more disciplined in terms of trying to invest every week no matter what...yet anyone setting strict rules for themselves to buy bitcoin every week no matter what, they have to have decently strong cashflow management systems in place, which also can take quite a bit of time and effort to get cashflow management systems in such a good state that the person can structure buying bitcoin every week no matter what is the BTC price.. and perhaps to continue to engage in such behaviors for 4-10 years or longer and perhaps to reassess the status of such efforts at various points along the way, and since we likely can predict the bitcoin price to continue to be volatile, we can expect that the value of our bitcoin holdings to be quite volatile too, so our systems and our resolution has to be strong enough to appreciate that there is likely to be value with our bitcoin investment down the road, and we are likely to be better off by investing into bitcoin as compared with not investing into bitcoin, yet at the same time, we realize that there are no guarantees, so we have to figure out the amount of our investment into bitcoin based on quite a few unknowns, yet while attempting to put some systems into place in order to control the knowns that we are able to control, which is how much bitcoin are we buying every week, for 4-10 years or longer.