Quote from: xOrpian on Today at 08:55:06 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 02:38:38 AM

Quote from: xOrpian on March 17, 2025, 11:06:45 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on March 17, 2025, 09:21:08 PM

Fair enough if you believe that you have learned from the mistakes of others, yet it remains questionable if you have gotten the correct lesson out of the deal.

If there's no experience of the mistake, then I doubt what the perceived lesson would be, other than the hesitation of not doing what is perceived as a mistake.

Sure there is value in experiencing our own mistakes, yet we do not have to experience all mistakes in order to learn from the mistakes of others or even to learn that there are better courses of actions when we get down to thinking through what we are going to do.

To some degree, we can learn from others in trading, but the market will never move as it has.
Sure, it can repeat the pattern (but it isn't guaranteed).
People who profit from recognizing specific patterns keep doing it until they decide to share it, and more people become aware of it, and it becomes a competition.
A newbie trader will definitely not be able to recognize these patterns but will need years of learning.
Most of my trades were automated, and the movement of certain altcoins was specific (repeating the patterns I discovered). I don't know if they still repeat.

Many (if not most) guys participating in this thread are not too excited by either trading BTC or analyzing shitcoins. Sure there are some guys who will try some of the trades, yet I think that in this thread, we are either longer term investors or maybe some of us might try to play some of the longer price waves (such as the cycles), yet sure, we still speculate on walls as a kind of hobby and not necessarily in order to inspire actions.. since as you may well know that regular buying might not be so much dependent upon BTC prices, yet once we reach certain heights in our BTC stack size, then surely we might have some intermediary time where we are mostly HODLing prior to transitioning to some kind of sustainable withdrawal.

Sure, maybe I am overly generalizing, because there is variance between all of us, and surely some of us are somewhat closeted traders and/or shitcoiners, even if those topics tend to not be very popular in these here parts.

Quote from: xOrpian on Today at 08:55:06 AM

Now, if I may, I want to include some off-trading examples:
1. Some learning Scubadive in a very short period, whereas for others, it takes over 15 hours (Even if you show the latter one the mistakes of the previous one, there will still be inevitable mistakes) - Like improper breathing, Unexpected encounters while diving (The situations will be specific to every individual, same as experience) - Sure expertise can be shared, and learned from but will you still face that particular situation, sure -not repeat the previous mistake.
Still, what are the odds of new situations not being raised? This is a constant fact everywhere in life.

I will agree that no matter what mistakes will be made, whether we might get into investing, trading or even get distracted into shitcoins, yet I think that there are quite a few of us who say fuck trading, fuck shitcoining, and get started investing into bitcoin first.

Even with straight-forward investing, it can take a while to figure out how to do it in such a way that does not result in the investor getting worked up about bitcoin prices, and spending time (perhaps a whole cycle) just accumulating bitcoin and shoring up their cashflow management that would include figuring out the difference between discretionary funds and non-discretionary funds, investing within our means and also creating and maintaining back up funds that include emergency funds, reserve funds and freuqently the management of a monthly cashfloat.

No one can really invest into bitcoin unless they are sure that they have discretionary income, and even if their financial situation and their psychology is bad from the start, I frequently still suggest that everyone get started investing into bitcoin as soon as possible, and the ONLY prerequisite is having a discretionary income.. .and yeah, sure I am assuming that they can learn along the way, and if their finances are really screwed up then they probably would need to be fixing those as they are investing into bitcoin, whether they are able to start with only $100 per week or $10 per week or some other amount that they clearly can figure out is discretionary income that they could afford to lose in the event that they might fuck it up in the beginning while they are learning various basics such as sourcing their coins.

Quote from: xOrpian on Today at 08:55:06 AM

2. We love animals (I hope we're in line with this)

I like animals that do not try to eat me. So I am not too fond of bears, especially ones who have a look in their eyes that says that they want to eat me. Otherwise, I might be willing to get in line on some of the more friendly animals, such as domesticated doggies and kitty cats.

Quote from: xOrpian on Today at 08:55:06 AM

Can you get close to lions, pet them like some people do (These people are from Wild Reserve mostly), and get close to crocodiles? No matter how much you teach someone not to be afraid (It will still be there), a moment of hesitation and fear it's over when it's done without safety... /- there will be no hesitation by the animal.

Some of those animals are not really able to be friendly towards non-botted peeps, especially if we were to be left in an empty room with one of them... and so, we might ask, is the crocodile in the room with us now?

Quote from: xOrpian on Today at 08:55:06 AM

I've been at events where I could've died. I had accidents, but they don't take place anymore, and I don't know if they will ever. (All were unique)

Sometimes we do end up learning from our mistakes and/or realizing that we had taken too many chances, whether we had been sober or under the influences of drugs or even adrenaline or crazy youth hormones at the time of our false senses of immortality.

Quote from: xOrpian on Today at 08:55:06 AM

What is a unique situation to me at some place might not be for someone else, and even if these events take place for someone else, then what are the odds they will handle it exactly as I did?

I suppose it depends on the situation. Sometimes we put ourselves in a bad situation, and then we have to think quick to try to react in order to get out of the situation or to mitigate it. Surely, not everyone is going to have the same box of tools at their disposal.

Quote from: xOrpian on Today at 08:55:06 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 02:38:38 AM

No matter what, we should be attempting to tailor our bitcoin investment actions to our own circumstances, and surely it can take a bit of time to build up a bitcoin investment and then to perhaps learn as we go, which might also cause us to change our minds from time to time.
There are quite a few of the longer term bitcoiners in this thread who changed their bitcoin investment plans through the years, and they even evolved into becoming more investors rather than traders.. since many of us have really personally experienced the value of both erroring on the side of buying and holding, but also not selling too much of our bitcoin too soon.

Since bitcoin is so volatile, it can be quite difficult to not get lured into some attempts to try to trade, yet I think that guys who concentrated on building their bitcoin investment over one or two cycles have tended to get to a point in which they have enough BTC or more than enough BTC, as compared with some guys who end up selling too much too soon within a cycle or maybe even they might sell too much too soon, and they are barely into their second cycle, which may well might not have had been enough time for bitcoin's value to sufficiently compound upon itself.
But yeah, guys have to figure out their balance, and this thread can serve as a way to bounce around ideas, even to frame some of our concerns in the framework of hypotheticals.

Yes, everyone has to learn on their own about bitcoin investment, there are many resources, and dwelling on all of them isn't a good, I think starting from somewhere who's had a good experience of it then applying what's learned (You might make mistakes, and there are resources where people who've also made these mistakes share solutions and possibly potential similar mistakes, that a newbie might fall int) - But knowing about mistakes first then learning?, That'd be a bad approach.

Well sometimes if the stakes are low, then we can make mistakes, yet we will not be taken out of the game, if negative consequences befall us. Anyone who starts investing into bitcoin is likely going to have some basic ideas about what is the level of his discretionary income - which is how much income he has that exceeds his expenses. Surely some folks have very bad money manage skills, or bad math or even being filled with difficulties in controlling their emotions.

So surely some folks have better skills than others, yet I still like to presume some basic levels of competencies, and that people need to make sure that they are responsible to figure out whether they have $10 of discretionary income that they can start out buying bitcoin or maybe if they can start out with $100 or maybe some other amount. The larger their mess and their disorganization, then likely the lower amount that they should start with, yet if they have good grasps of their circumtances, they may well be in a position to know that they can start with larger amounts.

I presume that each person is responsible to figure out these kinds of proportionality matters, and I will call them a retard if they believe that they have to start out BIG, unless they happen to already have a good grasp of the topic and a good grasp of their own finances.

Quote from: xOrpian on Today at 08:55:06 AM

Volatility is seen as a potential for quick profits despite uncertain marketing. People want to take risks to make a quick buck.

Hopefully we are not wanting to start out by teaching trading, even though we might want to start out by characterizing the bitcoin market as quite volatile, yet if our BTC investment horizon is 4-10 years or longer, then we should invest amounts into bitcoin in which we are not going to be concerned about short-term price fluctuations, and that we know that we are not guaranteed profits after 4-10 years or longer, but that we are going to build our investment into bitcoin over time and we are also going to try to learn about bitcoin in the next 4-10 years as we are investing into it and to let our learnings about bitcoin to help to prepare us in terms of any kinds of tweaking that we might nee to make to our bitcoin accumulation strategy and then perhaps into our maintenance phase and the perhaps later into some kind of a sustainable withdrawal.

Quote from: xOrpian on Today at 08:55:06 AM

Most people who do that are new to the market and lose money quickly, then complain about how it is being rigged and compare it with gambling (It is gambling when you do it without doing proper research),

I would suggest that trading is like gambling, and even if there are methods to trading, there are a lot of ways that trading can devolve into forms of gambling....

So in that regard, I would suggest to not fuck around with trading bitcoin, except if you are not able to control your temptations to gamble, then do not let your investment into the trading portion of your bitcoin holdings to be any more than 10% the size of your bitcoin holdings, and don't cheat.. and don't allow money to be siphoned off of your bitcoin into your trading.. so some self-restraint and limitations are going to be needed in order to not be fucking around too much with trading.

Sure, a lot of folks are going to have trouble to make limitations such as no more than 10% to go into trading, yet I am still going to acknowledge that they can do whatever they like (even dumb shit), but that they need to begin their focus on investing into bitcoin and not fucking around with trading or trying to trade it.

We have bitcoin which is amongst the best of assets known to mankind, including that it is a pristine asset, so why should anyone try to fuck around trying to trade it in any significant and/or material way when it is already poised to potentially make the investor rich as fuck, so there are no needs to be fucking around trying to trade it or to gamble with it, unless they somehow have enough discipline that they can keep their investment into their trading portion to be less than 10 % the size of their bitcoin investment..

Quote from: xOrpian on Today at 08:55:06 AM

but that doesn't mean you should be spreading the propaganda 'of it purely being gambling'.

Yes. I understand the difference. There is a rare trader who will not devolve into gambling practices. The rest of the traders are either already degenerate gamblers or they are likely to tend towards being degenerate gamblers by having a focus to trade something like bitcoin, which is already a great place to invest, so don't be fucking up an already good thing by aiming to gamble (trade) with it.

Quote from: xOrpian on Today at 08:55:06 AM

Now we have leverage, and these people use leverage over this market despite being new... /-
Even experienced traders rarely utilize leverage over 5-10(x).

I agree. Leverage is a fast way to turn a winning bet into something with a 100% loss. There could be places where leverage becomes useful, but it is an advanced technique that likely would need to be learned well in order to be able to deploy it with any level of efficacy and/or profitability.

Quote from: xOrpian on Today at 08:55:06 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 02:38:38 AM

Since you are new to the forum (only a few days) and to the thread, we might assume that you are also new to bitcoin, even though we know that some forum members had gotten exposure to bitcoin investing (buying/accumulating) prior to their registration date.

I know about Bitcoin post-2012. However, Bitcoin wasn't the first cryptocurrency I learned about to be in the crypto space.

Like I mentioned, we do not really talk about shitcoins and/or trading in this thread.. but yeah, if you have some bitcoin experience, then surely that would be topical to this thread. At least, you present your ideas pretty well, even if we might not necessarily agree, and sure this thread is a bit of an anything goes kind of a thread, yet I bet you will be receiving some hostility if you are talking about trading and shitcoins, even though traders are not usually beat up upon in this thread as much as members who might be wanting to talk about shitcoins as if they were a good thing...so frequently I personally associate shitcoining and trading in similar camps, even though sure, from time to time, there are some guys who are talking about trading bitcoin in this thread.

Hopefully, through the years, you have at least been able to build some kind of a decent bitcoin stash - rather than focusing on building dollars - even though sure, many of us still might be thinking of our bitcoin stash in terms of dollars or in terms of what kind of dollar options that we might have or even in terms of whether we are able to live off the income from our bitcoin once it has reached a certain size...

For example, if we might want to have a sustainable income of $80k per year perpetually, I personally would argue that right now the threshold amount to be able to enter into that category of yearly income would be 17.83 BTC. Of course, not everyone has the same level of income that they would want as their entry level fuck you status. Some guys can get by for a lot less, and other guys need more in terms of their expected standard of living...and of course, the amount of BTC that was needed in 2018 is different from the amount of BTC that is needed today and the amount is likely going to be different in the future, which means that the number of BTC that is needed is going down, and likely to continue to go down, so we do need to account for the ongoing debasement of the dollar in our calculations that goes along with the appreciation of BTC, and BTC's price appreciation is not ONLY coming from the debasement of the dollar, even though both things are going on simultaneously and likely (or nearly inevitably) going to continue to happen simultaneously since we have bitcoin which happens to be the most sound money known to man, at least up until now.