Quote from: pinggoki on Today at 04:36:49 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 03:59:31 AM

I am not against the idea of buying when there is a dip, yet I see no reason to wait for any dip before getting started, especially since it could take 4-10 years or longer just to build a bitcoin position, unless you are able to front load your bitcoin investment - yet many folks are not able to front load their bitcoin investment, and they end up building their bitcoin position over time with ongoing, continuous, persistent, regular and perhaps even aggressive buying that is within their ongoing receipt of discretionary income.

For me, I would only consider buying when there's a dip when I already have a sufficient amount of bitcoin that's stashed for the long-term, this notion of buying at the dip is probably caused by people that are advising newbies about how to invest in bitcoin, although they're right about dips being an opportunity to buy so they can get as much profit, it's the matter of timing that is wrong. I am guilty of this advice too, I tend to forget the part that they should start investing now no matter what because it's a test too in my opinion, if they can stomach the fact that their investment goes down so bad, will they be able to hold it out or not.

It can become quite tempting to get suck into a mindset that it is better to buy on a dip, rather than just getting started, especially, when someone might be a bitcoin newbie, and even if they might think about bitcoin as a long term investment, they still might get sucked into short-term kinds of thinking, since everyone likely prefers their bitcoin investment to be in profits rather than being in the negative - especially since the BTC price could end up dipping after it had already dipped and after we had bought, so we start to consider that the odds of bitcoin to keep dipping would be lower if we buy during dips.

If we might recognize and appreciate that it may well take us 4-10 years or longer just to build up our bitcoin investment holdings, then we should realize that we are likely better off to just buy bitcoin ongoingly no matter the price, especially if we are in the early stages of building our bitcoin, and whether the bitcoin goes down more or rises, we continue to buy.. even though surely it would be better to buy bitcoin cheaper, yet even experienced bitcoiners have a lot of difficult times figuring out the extent to which any kind of bottom is in or not, so how could a newbie figure out if the bottom is in or not?

Quote from: pinggoki on Today at 04:36:49 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 03:59:31 AM

It may not matter a whole hell of a lot if you buy the dip or not, especially if you might be receiving an income every week, and then there can be questions about the extent to which you hold back some of your discretionary income in order to wait for price dips that may or may not end up happening. Waiting for price dips likely puts a bitcoin investor in a wrong mentality, even though surely there could be some psychological pleasure that comes from holding back some value for dips... while recognizing and appreciating that the dips may or may not end up happening.

Now that you mention it, I've come to the realization that DCA is still the best, buying at dips shouldn't be religiously done or as you've said, some dips may not end up happening and at the end of it all, you come up empty handed waiting for nothing at all which is really crazy. In all this, I think that it should go without saying that buying dips is a must recommend thing "IF" if you already have a bitcoin portfolio that you think is already a lot in terms of long-term profit and that DCA is the best approach because it's consistent.

Yep.. It seems to me that guys who are in a "buying the dip" mentality are frequently getting into an inferior mindset that involves always waiting for more dip that may or may not happen, so then they likely end up not buying as much BTC as if they would have had stayed focus on buying regularly, consistently and ongoingly.

Each person is likely going to be in a better position to figure out the extent to which he can slow down in his persistent buying of bitcoin after he has spent a decent amount of time to build his bitcoin investment, and sure there are some guys who have more money that they can invest into bitcoin in order to front load their investment into bitcoin. The guys who are able to front load their bitcoin investment are likely less common than the guys who are just investing as aggressively as they can within their regular monthly/weekly cashflows... and of course, if guys put bitcoin buying systems in place, then they are going to also be in a better position to aggressively add more bitcoin to their portfolio when they end up receiving some kind of additional income (such as a bonus) or if they might have some unexpected reductions in their expenses. The ones who are buying regularly are in a mindset that already guides them and to incentivizes them to both save their extra money and to use their extra money to buy more bitcoin, rather getting into a wait and see mentality, that is not helping their BTC portfolio to grow, which is likely what is best to do in their first 4-6 years in bitcoin, even if they also might have had various opportunities to front load their bitcoin investment along the way.

Quote from: ZeroVinsonN on Today at 12:16:34 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 03:59:31 AM

Quote from: Negotiation on Today at 02:43:21 AM

In fact all investors know that the price of bitcoin will rise but if the price of bitcoin falls the right time to buy it will be when the price of bitcoin increases so those who bought bitcoin can profit. The main characteristic of bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies is their extreme volatility. This volatility can also create a big profit opportunity in particular bitcoin is still seen by many as digital gold a kind of savings or capital.

We are talking about bitcoin here.. not shitcoins. Hopefully, you and others are not considering that there is some kind of a similar value proposition to invest into shitcoins as compared with bitcoin.

Yet, I question the sentiment of your whole post, Negotiation. You seem to think that watching the BTC price matters in regards to when to get into bitcoin, yet if you have an investment timeline of 4-10 years or longer, and most likely it should be 10 years or longer, then why would there be any need to figure out if BTC happens to be in a dip or not?
I am not against the idea of buying when there is a dip, yet I see no reason to wait for any dip before getting started, especially since it could take 4-10 years or longer just to build a bitcoin position, unless you are able to front load your bitcoin investment - yet many folks are not able to front load their bitcoin investment, and they end up building their bitcoin position over time with ongoing, continuous, persistent, regular and perhaps even aggressive buying that is within their ongoing receipt of discretionary income.

It may not matter a whole hell of a lot if you buy the dip or not, especially if you might be receiving an income every week, and then there can be questions about the extent to which you hold back some of your discretionary income in order to wait for price dips that may or may not end up happening. Waiting for price dips likely puts a bitcoin investor in a wrong mentality, even though surely there could be some psychological pleasure that comes from holding back some value for dips... while recognizing and appreciating that the dips may or may not end up happening.

It's still amazes me how people still believe the best way to buy bitcoin is during a dip, what if a DIP doesn't happen during your waiting period??? What if while you are waiting for the price to go lower, it begins to increase?? How do people manage themselves in situations like this?

It seems that guys who spend so much time strategizing about dips that end up not happening, they end up setting themselves up for having to panic buy when the BTC price is going up, when they should have had bought at lower prices. So if they just continue to buy, then they are way less likely to experience those kinds of panic sentiments when the BTC price ends up going up. That kind of panic happens frequently with bitcoiners who were trying to be overly smart in their attempts to try to time the dip.

Quote from: ZeroVinsonN on Today at 12:16:34 PM

Buying the DIP is without a doubt a good investment strategy and its something any investor should get into but deciding to only buy during a dip will halt your bitcoin accumulation plan and when your planned investment time runs out, you then realize that you haven't accumulated anything.
Accumulation should be done through DCA or Scaling

It might be o.k. to hold back a little for buying the dip, as long as you recognize the trade off and the risk that you are running when you hold back some, whether that is 10% or 20% or some other reasonable amount that you could still accept if the BTC price ended up not dipping, as you had expected.

Quote from: Grace333 on Today at 03:10:00 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on March 20, 2025, 01:59:24 PM

Quote from: Nothingtodo on March 20, 2025, 09:37:14 AM

Quote from: AlphaBheta on March 20, 2025, 09:04:03 AM

I don't know if people still hold that view, but now is as good a time to get in, if you have the funds to. There's always DCA.

Many who have invested and held Bitcoin may be feeling a little uneasy at the moment, especially those who invested at high prices due to the market decline, and their holdings are currently at a loss. If they want to invest at a current price, i.e. using the DCA method, then investing at the right time right now and investing at the average price will definitely result in a much higher profit if the market corrects later. Again, for those who have not invested at all, it is the right time to invest, and if you have enough dollars, then keep investing.

Even if someone started buying bitcoin at $109k in January, there is no reason to stop buying and to continue to buy for 4 years or longer and then to reassess. Sure, if someone started out by front-loading his investment into bitcoin at $109k, then it would take longer for the smaller ongoing buys to bring down the average cost per BTC. Building a long term investment takes time, even when there is front loading of the investment, and surely sometimes there can be concerns when there might be extended periods of time in which an investment is in the negative.. yet if there is conviction about the investment, ongoing buying can continue to take place, with a sizing of the investment in accordance with tolerance and/or conviction.

The bitcoin investment is not guaranteed to be profitable down the road, whether we are talking about 4-10 years or longer, yet guys still ongoingly invest into bitcoin because they consider it to be amongst the best, if not the best of asymmetric bets to the upside that is currently available across the planet and to everyone/anyone.

There is no doubt you talk from experience and with so much confidence because you've seen these things happen over and over again and you've grown passed the stage of fighting with you emotions on price changes but, a newbie who just started holding his bitcoin at $109 ATH would be in a position of doubt and emotional battle to sell at this current price of bitcoin irrespective of his invested amount.

I am not saying that getting through our first whole cycle of bitcoin buying is not going to be difficult and without its challenges, yet guys can put themselves in a worse position if they lump sum invest into something like bitcoin and then they are not prepared to continue to buy if the BTC price ends up going down rather than up from their first price of purchase... so yeah, if a guy has a budget of $100 per week, and then he had $4k to start his investment, he might start to feel quite stressed if he put all $4k in at $109k and then he continues to buy $100 per week, yet it is going to take him 40 weeks before he is going to be able to invest another $4k into bitcoin, since he blew his whole wadd by starting to invest all of it at once.

I surely do not know the solution, yet if a guys is really planning to invest 4-10 years or longer, then he should have at least attempted to plan his entry into bitcoin that might be other than just lump sum buying at one price and then waiting... yet I know that guys have differing styles, yet sometimes, their style might not be good, since none of us should be wanting to put ourselves into a position that we feel that we need to sell lower than the price that we bought... so in that regard, we have to have a plan that involves either holding through dip periods or continuing to buy through dip periods.

Even the guy who started buying bitcoin at the beginning of the year, and maybe he bought most of his BTC at $109k - so he got 0.0367 BTC with his first $4k, and maybe he spend another 12 weeks buying $100 worth of BTC, so he invested another $1,200 and he got another .018 BTC, so then his total investment is $5,200 with 0.5467 BTC, yet his BTC holdings are in the negative, yet if he continues to buy $100 worth of bitcoin every week, he still will likely make some progress in a few years or even 4 years or greater, so it can take some patience to get through the first whole cycle while realizing that it is not guaranteed that the bitcoin holdings are going to be in profits, even after 4 years or more of regularly investing into it.

Quote from: Grace333 on Today at 03:10:00 PM

At some point in our lives we also felt same way, its difficult to sum up the courage to buy and hold more using any strategy of your choice when you know that you're at lost here,

I consider that my first purchase of BTC in late November 2013 was for right around $1,200 (since there were fees that caused my costs to be higher), and I figure that my first BTC purchase was not clearly and unambiguously in profits until some time after March 2017, so that was about 3 years and 4 months. Yet, I continued to buy BTC through that whole time, so I largely felt comfortable that my BTC was at least break even in early 2016, but probably more confidently in profits by the end of 2016, even though bitcoin was having some confidence problems with the blocksize wars and also the resolution of the large Bitfinex hack that had taken place around August 1, 2016. and yeah of course, the blocksize wars continued through a lot of 2017, even though we ended up having a great bitcoin price pump throughout 2017, so clearly all non-traders had gotten their bitcoin portfolios greatly into profits in 2017, so long as they mostly errored on the side of accumulating and/or holding their BTC.

Quote from: Grace333 on Today at 03:10:00 PM

but just as JJG already said there is no reason to stop buying until you achieve your set goal probably to hold for more than 2 circles which is 8 years +..... even if you've approached your set goal and you're about to sell, selling all your coins is definitely not a good idea. I saw a tweet about a holder who sold all his bitcoin he had accumulated for a long time now and bought some assets but he later ended up in regret after the price increased drastically. However there are more ATH to be broken so profit is guaranteed if you hold for long term.

I would not suggest that profits are guaranteed, even though surely bitcoin is amongst the best, if not the best, of asymmetric upside bets, which largely means that the most that you can lose is 100%, yet there is a lot of ongoing upside potential that should make it worthwhile to invest aggressively into bitcoin... yet even if we don't want to bet aggressively into bitcoin, we likely still could end up profiting quite well to make sure that we have some investment into bitcoin rather than those who fail/refuse to invest anything into bitcoin.

Quote from: Donneski on Today at 05:44:05 PM

Quote from: Dr.Bitcoin_Strange on Today at 03:57:12 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 03:59:31 AM

It may not matter a whole hell of a lot if you buy the dip or not, especially if you might be receiving an income every week, and then there can be questions about the extent to which you hold back some of your discretionary income in order to wait for price dips that may or may not end up happening. Waiting for price dips likely puts a bitcoin investor in a wrong mentality, even though surely there could be some psychological pleasure that comes from holding back some value for dips... while recognizing and appreciating that the dips may or may not end up happening.

The price of Bitcoin of a truth is very unpredictable but considering the past events in the Bitcoin market, buying Bitcoin when there's a dip have in most times been very profitable to investors. It's important for investors to have it at the back of their minds that buying dips doesn't guarantee profits but the truth is that it's more advantageous than buying when the market is experiencing uptrend movement in price.

How is a beginner going to know if the BTC price is moving up or down? You have ONLY been registerred on the forum since early 2023, so going on two years. You likely would have had been better off to be buying bitcoin every week since the beginning of your registration date rather than fucking around trying to figure out if the BTC price is going up or going down, and surely largely in the past two years the BTC price has been going up.

Yeah, you likely would have even been better off if you would have had been able to lump sum invest into bitcoin right around the time of your registration on the forum, yet the fact of the matter is that many folks do not have lump sum amounts fo money available to them, so they likely would be better off figuring out how aggressive that they could be and then invest as aggressively as they are able to invest... especially in the last 2 years.

Let's say that you were pretty well off, and you were able to invest $420 per week into bitcoin over the last 2 years. You would have had invested $44k, and you would have had accumulated close to a whole bitcoin. That is nearly a 2x profit. Not bad, and not a bad place to be either in terms of bitcoin accumulation. Hopefully whatever you are doing in fucking around with planning to buy dips is getting you at least similar performance as ongoing, persistent and consistent buying of BTC...

Now surely 2 years is not a very long investment timeline, so frequently a guy might need to look at his performance over a couple of cycles rather than merely over a short period of time. I frequently consider the dip buyer to be a much more whimpy bitcoin investor, even though he still might end up doing well, but he probably will not have nearly as many bitcoin as the one who is in the right mindset of persistently, consistently, ongoingly and perhaps even aggressively buying bitcoin on a regular basis (perhaps weekly at least a whole cycle or two).

Quote from: Donneski on Today at 05:44:05 PM

In as much as I agree with you that waiting for dips have it's own mental pressures I also want you to come to terms with the fact that it's better to always buy dips than buying when the market is on the high.

You are being retarded.

No one is saying to ONLY buy at high prices.

What I am saying is to get the fuck started and buy all the time. Trying to buy on dips is putting you into a wrong mindset, yet you are free to do whatever you want, even dumb shit. If you think that you are advantaged to be waiting for dips rather than buying persistently, consistently, ongoingly and perhaps even aggressively that is your choice.

I am not going to go along with your dumbass frame work that tries to argue that you are smart since it would be dumb to buy during each of the ATHs.

Quote from: Donneski on Today at 05:44:05 PM

Buying dips to me will always be the perfect moments of investing in Bitcoin and unless the market leaves me with results to think otherwise, I'll continue to stick with that

Even if you cannot recognize and appreciate the downside to ONLY buying dips, hopefully others recognize and appreciate the value of both getting started in buying bitcoin at any price and also buying bitcoin no matter the price for at least a cycle or two rather than trying to be too smart for your own good.

Surely there may well be some situations in which guys are able to front load their bitcoin investment, yet it seems also quite likely that it takes quite a while to build up a bitcoin investment portfolio, even if a person might be buying for more than a whole cycle.

Quote from: Ruttoshi on Today at 06:21:33 PM

Quote from: Donneski on Today at 05:44:05 PM

[edited out]

Nobody is saying that when you buy bitcoin at the dip, it wouldn't give your a bigger profit compared from when you buy higher. But the problem lies in your waiting for the dip without buying any bitcoin. Waiting is very dangerous and it's a success stealer which makes it not a good accumulation practice for new investors and low coiners.

If you want to start using profits to make decisions on which strategy to use, you will feel buying at the dip is the best but it isn't, because in the long run it is the quantity of bitcoin in your portfolio that will determine your profits. Someone with 3btc will be in more profits than someone with 1btc.

It seems that we have given several of these kinds of examples in the past in which some guys are more whimpy than others, since some guys are overly preoccupied with his cost per BTC rather than consistently, persistently and perhaps aggressively buying bitcoin, so yeah, there may well be guys who end up with way more bitcoin, and sure their cost per BTC are higher, yet we likely would rather be the guy with more bitcoin rather than the guy with less bitcoin and lower costs per BTC.

The longer the timeline the likely greater the variance, but yeah, in the short-term some guys are going to act like they are geniuses based on their whimpy approach towards buying bitcoin, and sure they end up with lower costs per bitcoin, but perhaps they also end up with way lower quantities to bitcoin, too.

Don't get me wrong. I am not even obsessed with having to have a lot of bitcoin, yet there is quite a bit of comfort that comes from having our bitcoin investment work for us once we get it to a certain size in which we have more than enough bitcoin.

Quote from: Ruttoshi on Today at 06:21:33 PM

This is why you don't need to wait for the dip before buying because it will slow down your accumulation pace. It's better you stick to DCA method because it enables you to buy bitcoin every week regularly with an amount from your discretionary income that will allow you to be consistent and persistent in buying bitcoin regularly 4-10 years and above.

Most investors that do plan to buy at the dip ends up procrastinating because they will want the price to dip to their own price and most times, it doesn't. Don't wait for unpredictable scenarios before investing in bitcoin for a long-term to transform your financial status to a better one.

Yep. There are both disadvantages in regards to waiting for dips that might not happen, but there are also disadvantages in regards to having had failed refused to invest so many dollars that are still available and not working, especially if the BTC price ends up shooting up several times and not coming back down, just like it did several times between $16k in late 2022 until now. Guys waiting for sub $80k prices to return might get lucky, yet they may well be left holding a bunch of fiat that could have had been in bitcoin but instead is just sitting not doing anything except for losing value.

Quote from: Proty on Today at 08:35:55 PM

Quote from: Donneski on Today at 05:44:05 PM

[edited out]

One of the thing most people fail to understand is that the fact that one is accumulating bitcoin using a particular strategy doesn't mean the person can't used the other strategies.one can be doing DCA and still buy the dips however the main reason why newbies are advised to start accumulating bitcoin using DCA strategy instead of buying the dip is that buying the dip requires one to be timing the market and waiting for a desire price before starting accumulating bitcoin which is not suitable for a no coiner as the desire dips may not occur.so instead waiting for bitcoin to dip while we remain a no coiner is not a good decision, a no coiner oughto focus more on continuous accumulation of bitcoin.

Inadequate bitcoin accumulation is true for both no coiners and low coiners.

There are many low coiners who do not realize that they are low coiners, so they do not give urgency towards buying bitcoin as aggressively as they are able to do.

Sure, it is better to have some bitcoin rather than to have no bitcoin, and surely it can be quite difficult for anyone else to judge the extent to which another person has enough BTC.

I personally think that beginner bitcoiners should shoot to have 5% to 25% of the quasi-liquid investment holdings in bitcoin, and surely there are folks who do not have any investments at all, so they might have to start out with bitcoin before potentially getting to other investments, and yeah, maybe it will take a while before they might believe that there is some justification to diversify into other investments, so these folks might also be considered low coiners if they are barely even a whole cycle in terms of accumulating bitcoin...so maybe they don't even have a whole year of their expenses in bitcoin.