Quote from: Barikui1 on March 26, 2025, 07:23:03 AM

Quote from: Ricardo11 on March 26, 2025, 07:00:23 AM

Quote from: Humblevirus on March 26, 2025, 06:40:14 AM

Quote from: Rockstarguy on March 25, 2025, 02:24:58 PM

Quote from: POPOLUV on March 25, 2025, 09:07:05 AM

Talking about buying the dip and holding it in long term, we should consider this word "patient" because any investors that is patient enough can't never wait for a long term investment than going for short term investment, some investors didn't have have self discipline when it comes to wait for a long term, that is why many are going for a short term investment, assuming Bitcoin can invent or program their way of investments from like 5 years up, so that many investors will not being using Bitcoin as a betting opportunity, since many make use of short term instead of long term investment.

I won't blame those who don't have patience to hodl bitcoin because it impossible to have patience on something you don't understand and it takes only good understanding for one to have patience in hodling bitcoin. One thing about hodling if you don't have understanding about it you can do anything to invest bitcoin for long. The understanding of bitcoin hodling is the reason why people can really exercise patience to hodl bitcoin because they really understand what they are doing. Bitcoin is a longterm investment with good understanding you don't have to struggle or to so desperate to make money from it quick.

It is not only those who do not understand Bitcoin that are sometimes impatient holding for long term .However, even those who understand it can sometimes become impatient due to certain reasons. Even individuals with knowledge about Bitcoin may decide to become traders for aim of making quick profits, and once they do, it means they lack the patience to hold Bitcoin for a long time.

Another reason is that those with good knowledge of Bitcoin often want to take advantage of it by investing money they cannot afford to lose. When someone invests money they can't afford to lose, they are unlikely to hold for the long term.As for me, I would definitely blame those who lack the patience to hold Bitcoin. They fail to achieve success because of their actions, and they must be held responsible for their losses.

I disagree with you, I don't understand how someone who has good knowledge about Bitcoin can make decisions like a newbie? He already has good knowledge about Bitcoin, and he knows about the benefits and risks of Bitcoin. In my opinion, an investor who knows the essentials and is well-versed in Bitcoin will never decide to invest an amount of money that he cannot afford to lose. This kind of behavior is only for new investors who want to make a quick profit and take irrational risks due to greed. An investor who knows the real long-term potential of Bitcoin will never worry about short-term profits, even if Bitcoin dumps a lot or pumps a lot while continuing his holding, he will still continue his long-term investment and holding according to his goal.

I still can't find this statement pleasing because no matter how small it is, you wouldn't be happy losing your hard earned money, and to be honest here, nobody is investing in Bitcoin through the DCA accumulating strategy base on the fact that it's an amount he is willing to lose, the right statement that you guys should be using it investing an amount of money you can do away with for a very long period of time, because when you Invest with a spare money that you are not needing anytime soon, you wouldn't be under any pressure to sell during that period.

But saying that we should invest with an amount you can afford to lose makes it looks as if we are gambling or we are trading, this is an investment, no Investor will be happy losing his hard earned money, so in my own opinion, the right statement for such phrase is invest with an amount you can do away with for a very long period of time.

You might be correct Barikui1, yet the common expression is to invest money that you can afford to lose, which means that you don't need it and you are willing to let it ride to zero.

Sure, of course, we expect our investments to end up being profitable, yet no investment is guaranteed to be profitable - even in the long term... part of the reason that we diverify our investments so that we are not too emotionally attached to any one investment.

Yeah, I know that a lot of people end up having very high allocations to bitcoin, including myself, yet when I invested into bitcoin, I was taking that from money that I was willing to lose if the investment went bad or to zero. I chose my amount to invest into bitcoin based on those kinds of considerations that it could end up going to zero..

If our investment into bitcoin becomes so big that we feel that we need to get some money out of it, then maybe we need to cash some out and to diversify into less volatile assets.

The mere fact that we are proclaiming to not invest money that you cannot afford to lose is to help with the mindset that you could lose up to 100% of your bitcoin investment and that is all of it...so it seem to me that you are either not understanding the expression or you are having a different kind of a mindset.

Similar concepts apply to trading.. when guys trade, they should be taking from discretionary money that they do not need for expenses... So investing and trading are similar in those kinds of concepts that we are taking from discretionary money that we do not need.

In the case of trading, yeah there is a lot more going on in regards to both selling and buying, whereby an investor may well not need to engage in any kind of short term selling, but just continuing to put value into the investment.. and with something like bitcoin there are still some guys who are still building their bitcoin holdings, yet they employ both selling and buying into their practices, and they say that they are investing, yet if they are responsible with their attempt to manage their trading capital, then they are building their trading capital (or at least trying to build it) from their discretionary income and not from money that they need for expenses.

Of course, this thread is not about trading as a practice, and the OP of the thread purposefully does not talk about selling as a way to accumulate bitcoin.. but focuses on buying techniques, even though surely OP places some value in buying on dips which some of us disagree with his emphasis on buying dips, especially when it comes to new bitcoin investors.

Quote from: Derekfunds on March 26, 2025, 07:53:22 AM

Quote from: Ricardo11 on March 26, 2025, 07:00:23 AM

[edited out]

People who put what they can not afford to lose or let go are typically traders because they have the intention to make millions if the market move according to there speculation but funny enough they are not the one controlling the market and not only traders does this some people who don't have a better knowledge of what Bitcoin is all about do make the same mistake and when they do that and along the line they found out they are stranded they will be tempted to touch there investment because they didn't calculate, plan before investing and I don't know why people are rushing to invest in Bitcoin when they can not maintain it, starting is a not always a problem but the problem is maintenance, you can not buy a car and then refuse to be maintaining and servicing it because definitely it will spoil that is also how Bitcoin investment work.

Anyone can make the mistakes of investing too much or even failing/refusing to exercise strong cashflow management practices or to have a sufficient back up funds such as an emergency fund and other reserve funds... so yeah, we can say that their failure/refusal to adequately mitigate risks ended up in their unnecessarily gambling with their bitcoin investment... and sure, maybe they end up having to sell some of their bitcoin because they failed to sufficiently/adequately establish an emergency fund.. yet I would not call them a trader merely because they ended up engaging in poor risk mitigation practices.

Quote from: wakier on March 26, 2025, 07:59:12 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on March 24, 2025, 04:10:08 PM

[edited out].

First of all thank you for calculating it in detail and yes it is true if we invest 15% it will take almost 7 years to reach our 1 salary per year in my opinion it does not matter how much money we invest the most important thing is we do not mind setting aside it every month or week because it is like our savings in the future. Let's say I earn (currently) $ 400 in a month and in a year I invest 15% of $ 4800 around $ 720. From a total of 7 years I managed to save $ 5040. After I saw the DCA calculator the result like this Is my calculation correct?

Yep.. those numbers are all correct, and, so yeah, I think that 15% of your income is sufficiently aggressive for a lot of folks to be able to achieve, and surely there are some folks who are not able to be so aggressive in their bitcoin investment, yet if you are able to accomplish that level of aggressiveness while maintaining an emergency fund that is around three months of your income, then you will be in a pretty strong position to be able to handle your level of bitcoin investment aggressiveness.

In your hypothetical case, your emergency fund should be somewhere around $1,200, and surely you will be even stronger if you are able to keep some other kinds of backup and/or reserve funds too, so that you never have to tap into your emergency funds absent an actual emergency.. so frequently when any of us get to a state that we actually are having to touch our emergency funds, then we realize that we are getting down to our last of funds and we are not going to want to deplete our emergency funds.. .so we likely realize that matters are more urgent in terms of figuring out ways to increase our income or decrease our expenses..and hope that our emergency status does not last very long, since we have to replenish our emergency funds as soon as the emergency had passed.

It seems to me that any of us who have invested a year's of our income into our bitcoin investment should feel quite good about that, and surely we know that in the past 7 years or so, bitcoin has been performing quite well, so we would have some of our earlier investments into bitcoin having higher appreciation rates than our later investments, and surely we may well see a certain level of progress in having had been able to put a whole year's income into our bitcoin investment, and just like your linked chart shows, a guy who put $15 per week into bitcoin over 7 years starting from September 2016 would have had invested right around $5,500 into bitcoin and would have had accumulated right around 1.140705 BTC.

I personally think that such a guy would have already gotten himself into a position to be able to replace his income with his bitcoin and to be able to withdraw around $5k per year, if he is happy with that standard of living, since his 1.140705 would currently have a 200-WMA value of $51,534 and a current spot price value of $99.2k. He has already largely 10x'd his yearly income, which I think with bitcoin is sufficient to enter into fuck you status, unless he wants to have a bit of a higher income (and/or cash cushion), then he could keep investing into bitcoin until it meets his threshold level that he considers to be enough.

Quote from: Tmoonz on March 26, 2025, 10:58:18 AM

Quote from: Derekfunds on March 26, 2025, 07:53:22 AM

People who put what they can not afford to lose or let go are typically traders because they have the intention to make millions if the market move according to there speculation but funny enough they are not the one controlling the market and not only traders does this some people who don't have a better knowledge of what Bitcoin is all about do make the same mistake and when they do that and along the line they found out they are stranded they will be tempted to touch there investment because they didn't calculate, plan before investing and I don't know why people are rushing to invest in Bitcoin when they can not maintain it, starting is a not always a problem but the problem is maintenance, you can not buy a car and then refuse to be maintaining and servicing it because definitely it will spoil that is also how Bitcoin investment work.

I agree with you that having a good plan is good but you also need to understand that starting is one big step or level while maintenance is another level that will only come after starting of investment, it is better to be going in a wimpy kind of way than procrastinating, starting is one and maintenance is another thing, surely one must first figure out that there is a discretionary income before getting started. the maintenance of car is different from maintenance of Bitcoin, Bitcoin is a digital asset.

This is a good point Tmoonz. I frequently suggest that guys should be as aggressive as they can without over doing it, yet you are also correct to say, that it is better that a guy do something rather than doing nothing, and surely there are newbie no coiners and/or low coiners who are worried about investing into bitcoin, yet they are going to be better off to error on the side of being overly conservative until they get some grasp on their cashflow and maybe they have to become more comfortable in bitcoin to be able to increase their investment amount.

So let's say that a newbie no coiner/low coiner knows that he could afford $100 per week to invest into bitcoin, yet he is skeptical about bitcoin and has a lot of questions about bitcoin and/or even how to manage his funds in case he makes mistakes in regards to his cashflow management.

So maybe he starts out investing into bitcoin at somewhere between $10 and $15 per week, and then as he is working out his personal matters and even looking more into bigtcoin, then he might be able to increase his investment, and he might even discover that he is able to invest at more than $100 per week, yet he is not able to get to that psychological comfort level until he looks into matters that allows him to become sufficiently comfortable.

Surely many of us think that bitcoin is an important and even urgent matter that justifies aggressive investing into it, yet others are not necessarily going to consider bitcoin from that perspective, so it may well take them awhile before they come around to our way of considering bitcoin..so they have to work at their own pace, and if they at least find an amount that allows them to get started investing into bitcoin, even if it is a relatively small amount, then they will be in a better position with the passage of time by their having had taken some action rather than their not taking action.

Quote from: Jewan420 on March 26, 2025, 11:11:19 AM

Quote from: Barikui1 on March 26, 2025, 07:23:03 AM

But saying that we should invest with an amount you can afford to lose makes it looks as if we are gambling or we are trading, this is an investment, no Investor will be happy losing his hard earned money, so in my own opinion, the right statement for such phrase is invest with an amount you can do away with for a very long period of time.

You are making the statement very complicated. Losing money does not mean that you are going to lose the money or that you will easily lose it. You can take this word to mean money that you will never need to meet your daily needs or meet basic needs. Or even if that money is ever lost, it will not affect your quality of life or you will not be paralyzed. I will not say that after investing with losing money, you will not regret it if it is somehow lost, this sentence is not realistic at all. A person's hard-earned money is always valuable and if its amount is very large, then you will definitely regret it if it is lost.

We invest into bitcoin or any other investment with an expectation that we are going to be profitable, even though we know that we are not guaranteed to be profitable. We also have to know that the short term is very hard to predict, and even bad things can end up happening in which our investment is no longer strong, whether we made mistakes or whether something related to the asset ends up having problems to weaken it as an investment.

Quote from: Jewan420 on March 26, 2025, 11:11:19 AM

Choose money for investment that if it is lost one day, it will not have a negative impact on your quality of life. I find the definition of losing money as you have mentioned a bit confusing. According to your definition, if you need the invested money before achieving your goal, then what will you do or how will you mention it?

Bitcoin has historically corrected between 70% to 90%, so even if we might believe those days are over, we cannot be sure.

We also cannot be sure that bitcoin will recover after correcting 90%. None of us invested into bitcoin believing that we are going to lose money, yet we cannot really know if we are investing at the top or not..and even if bitcoin corrects, we cannot know if it will stop correcting or just continue correcting into a never ending downward spiral. So we have to invest with the understanding that we could lose everything, and so we choose our bitcoin position size and even the extent to which we diversify into other assets based on an understanding that our investment could lose to 100% - presuming that we have not employed leverage to make it even worse.

Quote from: arwin100 on March 26, 2025, 01:00:40 PM

Quote from: Jewan420 on March 26, 2025, 11:11:19 AM

Quote from: Barikui1 on March 26, 2025, 07:23:03 AM

But saying that we should invest with an amount you can afford to lose makes it looks as if we are gambling or we are trading, this is an investment, no Investor will be happy losing his hard earned money, so in my own opinion, the right statement for such phrase is invest with an amount you can do away with for a very long period of time.

You are making the statement very complicated. Losing money does not mean that you are going to lose the money or that you will easily lose it. You can take this word to mean money that you will never need to meet your daily needs or meet basic needs. Or even if that money is ever lost, it will not affect your quality of life or you will not be paralyzed. I will not say that after investing with losing money, you will not regret it if it is somehow lost, this sentence is not realistic at all. A person's hard-earned money is always valuable and if its amount is very large, then you will definitely regret it if it is lost.

Choose money for investment that if it is lost one day, it will not have a negative impact on your quality of life. I find the definition of losing money as you have mentioned a bit confusing. According to your definition, if you need the invested money before achieving your goal, then what will you do or how will you mention it?

For me I just use the amount I can spend and don't think about that afford to lose thing when it come on Bitcoin since there's no amount I can afford to lose when talking about investing on Bitcoin. Since its like giving me losing vibes when I think about that. I have high trust on Bitcoin that it will deliver good result in future.

According to your forum registration date you have been in bitcoin since early 2016. Are you trying to say that you have always been in profits or afraid to invest into bitcoin if you think that the price might go down?

Many of us can spend a lot of time in which our bitcoin holdings are not in profits, and we are not guaranteed that they will get into profits into the future... So mentally how do we deal with those kinds of times?

I doubt those feelings of potential loss ever go away...even when we might consider that we are in 80x profits, yet it is way easier to deal with the idea of being in profits when our holdings is already 80x in profits as compared to when they are not in profits and we are going through continuous and ongoing periods in which the BTC price is not going up.

Quote from: arwin100 on March 26, 2025, 01:00:40 PM

Somehow that use amount what I can afford to lose is giving me a vibe towards shitcoin trading since we can't deny that its really risky and we know how everything fast with these tokens that's why I think this is perfect fit when people discuss with these thing with shitcoins. Since there's huge chance to lose here, especially they struggle to recover or rug pulls is pretty common in that scene.

Yes. Hopefully none of us are so dumb as to be fucking around with shitcoins, and if we do hopefully we are able to limit our exposure to shitcoins to be invested at no more than 10% of the size of our bitcoin holdings (hopefully fair systems of limitations that are not cheating to continue to draw from bitcoin after putting money into shitcoins, if that is what some of us might choose to do..

Quote from: Sonia_123 on March 26, 2025, 10:47:59 PM

Quote from: SOKO-DEKE on March 26, 2025, 05:02:15 PM

Quote from: Gost ms on March 26, 2025, 01:50:40 PM

Before investing or short-term investing, first gain complete knowledge so that you can make your own decisions. I think having complete knowledge about Bitcoin will make you patient.

Knowledge is very important in Bitcoin investment, but the truth is that no one can gain complete knowledge of Bitcoin. Even someone who has been in Bitcoin for a long time doesn’t know everything about it.the best way for someone to start Bitcoin investment is by taking the first step, and in the process of accumulating Bitcoin, they will gradually learn more about it. There’s no need to learn everything about Bitcoin investment before starting. All someone needs is a basic understanding of Bitcoin.

There are people who have accumulated significant amounts of Bitcoin over time. When they started, they just learn how to buy without knowing anything more about. Later, they even more qnd learned the difference between non-custodial and custodial wallets.All you need is the mindset that you want to invest in Bitcoin, hold it for the long run, and with even with mindset that you have that you want invest in Bitcoin and hold for long term it can make you overcome some challenges.

Also in as much as Bitcoin bases knowledge is concern, before chosing, which investment you would want to go into either Trading or accumulation.

It is important to learn more as possible about the reason of Bitcoin strategies of accumulating, mainly for the low earners using the DCA to accumulate faster and freely and how it works, so that you will understand it more better and you will be able to chose which investment you prefer, because it's obvious that those investor that are going for short-term investment really don't have the full understanding of accumulating for a long-term, if not they wouldn't have gone into it, also the worth and how much value will Bitcoin be,from when they start accumulating to ten years time.

Hopefully no one is so dumb as to consider that there is a need to fuck around with either shitcoins and/or trading in order to get started investing into bitcoin.

Learn bitcoin first and invest into bitcoin first.

If you are already investing into bitcoin first and you are also studying shitcoins and/or trading, then hopefully you are not getting too distracted into any of that nonsense and you keep most of your energies, time and money into bitcoin (at least 90%), and then at some point down the road, if you cannot resist them maybe you can dabble in shitcoins/trading with no more than 10% of your bitcoin investment, and yeah, I know trading and gambling is hard to limit to ONLY 10%... so it can be a pretty BIG ASK to try to help newbies from getting distracted into shitcoins and/or trying to trade bitcoin.

Quote from: cryptomaniac_xxx on March 26, 2025, 11:22:50 PM

Quote from: SOKO-DEKE on March 26, 2025, 05:02:15 PM

[edited out]

It will take time to learn at least the basic of Bitcoin investment. For sure many of us here have been a victims in the beginning, when we thought that it's a easy way to get rich. As for me I fall for that too good to be true offer before. So it's a expensive lessons to learn for me. But I'm glad that it did happen to me early, as it made me realized that it's not that easy to be a Bitcoin investor.

Now my mindset is very different, I don't trust anyone but verify everything first. Of course, DCA is the most friendliest strategy to use, even big entities like Michael Saylor might have used it as well. But for us average joe investors, we can find that DCA is the best strategy and we can accumulate and for one, it avoids emotional decisions driven by market fluctuations, as it reduces the feeling to panic-sell during market downturns, or invest too heavily when the price is going up.

I understand your point to be to stay focused on bitcoin first, and yeah, it takes a while to learn various things about bitcoin, so frequently, many of us sugget that the main thing that you need to know when starting to invest into bitcoin is whether you have a discretionary income or not, such as do you have $10 per week? O..k.. if you do, then you can get started.

Another thing is working out your cashflow management to make sure that you continue to have $10 per week or even up to $100 per week, and so it may well be more important to learn how to manage your cash rather than working out details to learn about bitcoin, even though surely as you are investing, hopefully you are able to spend time to learn both about bitcoin and about how to strengthen your cashflow management systems including making sure that you have an adequate emergency fund that you can build at the same time that you are building up your bitcoin investment.