Quote from: JayJuanGee on March 30, 2025, 06:57:08 PM

Quote from: laijsica on March 30, 2025, 04:25:48 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on March 30, 2025, 03:03:31 AM

It sounds like you are proclaiming a need to build emergency funds first, and sure you can do whatever you like, but I think that is a dumb way to go about it. From my point of view it is best to get started investing into bitcoin as soon as possible, and one of the only prerequisites before investing into bitcoin is to make sure that you have discretionary income, whether it is $10 or some other higher amount..and then work on investing every week and figure out your other various bitcoin-related and cashflow management skills along the way while you are already investing into bitcoin within your discretionary income.. with hopefully a goal of investing into bitcoin for 4-10 years or longer. If you cannot invest into bitcoin for 4-10 years or longer, then you might not have enough discretionary income in order to establish that and surely there should be efforts to figure out those matters, yet you might not even have to commit to investing into bitcoin for 4-10 years or longer to get started investing into bitcoin, yet it is still important to consider that 4-10 years or longer is likely the investment timeline for bitcoin.

Exactly! To start Bitcoin, we should ensure our discretionary income and set an initial stage of how much to deposit. As you have recommended, save at least $10 and above. I feel the need for a backup fund, but we should start saving Bitcoin at the beginning and implement an effective strategy for our investment so that it is long-term. Some new investors like us may have doubts in some areas such as making the investment horizon 4-10 years.

If you (or any of the other bitcoin newbies) are afraid about committing to 4-10 years or more for your investment, then you might have to reduce your investment size so that you are not so attached to it and you are able to at least try to commit to a longer timeline rather than thinking about bitcoin as a shorter-term trade.

Of course, you can do what you want, but if you are putting relatively small amounts of money (and surely I recommend at least $10 per week), then you should be able to figure out ways that you are not thinking about withdrawing from that money for 10 years or more.. especially if you are neither elderly or with health considerations that might disrupt your ability to commit to investing into bitcoin for longer periods of time.

There is no need to get overly greedy, yet at the same time, the more you are able to invest without overdoing it, then the more likely that you will be in a better position when it comes time for you to transition into either maintenance mode or into sustainable withdrawal mode.

Quote from: laijsica on March 30, 2025, 04:25:48 AM

I am sure that if someone starts investing from discretionary income and he creates a backup fund to do it regularly he will be able to easily pull accordingly that you say.

There are ways that it can be easy, yet usually it is not easy - especially since bitcoin tends to be so volatile, and if you are committing value to bitcoin, then even if the amounts seem small, they start to add up and they tempt you into selling too much too early.

If you are poor, and you never had much investment, even after 4-6 years, you might start to get tempted to tap into your bitcoin investment, and you may well get tempted to tap into it earlier than 4 years, and generally guys end up making mistakes of stopping their adding to their investment too early and also selling way too much too soon. It is not easy, and you don't even have to be poor to make those kinds of mistakes.

Quote from: laijsica on March 30, 2025, 04:25:48 AM

Investors may have some differences about the size of a decent backup fund some may feel comfortable keeping it for six months or more or two years.

I think that it is problematic holding that quantity of back up funds, and that is part of the reason that I suggest 3 months for emergency funds, and sure, if you have an additional 3 months of reserve funds, then I have no real problem with that, but if you are keeping large quantities, then yhou are likely suffering from having way too much non-working cash. Generally your emergency fjunds are not really working, except maybe you have them in an interest bearing account that might give you 1% per year or some other low return. Your emergency funds need to tend to be pretty liquid. Now if you have additional reserve funds that are larger than your emergency funds (perhaps another 3 months?), then maybe those do not need to be as liquid, but it still seems to me that they need to be somewhat liquid, so that you would be able to get them within a month or so as you might be using up your emergency funds, and then needing to tap into your reserve funds, even though in theory the emergency funds are tapped last, but logistically if you have other funds that are a bit less liquid, then if an actual emergency comes, they you would likely have to tap into the most liquid funds first.. and then the less liquid funds would be in the process of being made available to either replace the emergency funds or to be used in the event that the emergency is continuing.

How much you feel that you need for these various kinds of back up funds are surely customized to your own finances, psychology, and/or personal judgement, and many times we are not going to come to similar outcomes in terms of how each of us ends up making our allocations of such funds and/or how we are holding them.. but part of the reason to even create so many kinds of back up funds tends to be to protect your bitcoin investment, and it seems to me that if you are prioritizing all these various kinds of fiat-based backup funds, and you don't have shit for quantity within your bitcoin investment, then it seems to me that you would be missing the plot, since part of the importance of bitcoin is to attempt to put some priority into it rather than just creating a bunch of systems in which you are holding a whole bunch of worthless cash that is largely depreciating in value faster than you can replace it..so if you are holding too much cash, you will find that you have a full time job fucking around keeping your various cash reserves up and the investment that matters (which is bitcoin) would be being neglected and/or deprioritized due to your lack of focus and your lack of an ability to recognize that bitcoin is the prize not the fucking around holding various kinds of cash...so you have to be ongoingly putting a decent amount of value in bitcoin and not be overly holding way more cash than is prudent and/or practical.

To me, it seem that guys who are overly prioritizing building their emergency funds and/or back up funds greater than building up their bitcoin, they are likely going to stay losing and overallocating to cash and failing/refusing to allocate and/or sufficiently/adequately prepare their bitcoin holdings for up.

Quote from: laijsica on March 30, 2025, 04:25:48 AM

For investment horizon and growth of holdings. Additionally, floating cash funds can entice investors to buy more during a bear market and this type of trend adds more Bitcoin to the portfolio.

I tend to think of floating funds as the kind of money that guys have from month to month that they are keeping as extra since they do not necessarily know their exact expenses, so they have to keep some extra money floating in their possession (or their accounts), otherwise, once they figure out their expenses, then some of that floating money (to the extent that it is not floated into the next month) would come available as discretionary income to be able to buy things, invest into bitcoin or to put into back up funds.

So yeah, there is a category of back up funds (usually referred to as reserve funds) that a guy could hold for buying on dips. I find that there is nothing wrong with potentially holding up to 25% the amount that you are regularly buying into bitcoin for the purposes of buying dips, yet buying dips as a strategy is not a good one, since it tends to result in guys being overly whimpy in their bitcoin investment and spending a lot of time waiting rather than ongoingly, persistently, consistently and perhaps even aggressively buying bitcoin.

To me, it seems that you, laijsica, are overly inclined to be wanting to hold back on your bitcoin investment and to overly allocate to cash, and sure, that is your choice in terms of the extent to which you feel more comfortable being whimpy rather than aggressive in your approach to bitcoin investing.. and frequently, I consider that it is better to be a whimpy investor in bitcoin rather than failing/refusing to invest into bitcoin.

Quote from: arwin100 on March 30, 2025, 10:23:37 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on March 30, 2025, 12:24:32 AM

Quote from: Stormisover on March 29, 2025, 09:54:45 PM

Quote from: Btcdeybodi on March 29, 2025, 08:39:45 PM

Quote from: Gost ms on March 29, 2025, 06:00:50 AM

Put 3 times your stable income in the emergency fund and reserve fund.

Do you really know what you are saying? had it been you said 3/4 of your discretionary income it could have sounded better than saying x3 of your stable income. Let me make it clear to you because i can see that you think emergency and reserved funds should be a fixed amount but if that's what you are trying to spell then you are wrong because it's from your discretionary income that you will scrap out emergency and reserved funds which means that each time you DCA, you will have to cut out some money and add it up to your existing emergency and reserved funds. They are not fixed as they vary based on how much you can be able to make available after your DCA amount have been taken care of, any amount that is left can stand for emergency needs and as reserve funds.

I would say that after our basic needs money has been allocated, the next inline should be our emergency funds before the DCA money and the rest of it like the reserve funds and float cash, where it only becomes problematic is when you decide to wait until you have an emergency funds prior to getting started but on the occasion of already starting accumulating Bitcoin, in the scale of preference for me I would prefer allocating to my emergency funds first before considering my DCA amount based on the available discretionary income.

Many guys have already suggested that if a guys is a low coiner or no coiner, then there is no reason to even have an emergency fund prior to having some BTC, yet I personally like the idea of building emergency funds and bitcoin stash size at a similar rate... until the emergency fund gets up to at least 3 months of expenses.

Surely many guys might start out investing into bitcoin , and they already have some cash back up funds that might be 2 weeks to 6 weeks of their expenses, so many guys are already accustomed to living with some good cashflow management practices that maintain some cash cushion in regards to their being able to cover expenses between times that they receive income...so if a person is earning $400 per month and he tends to have $250 in expenses each month, then he might have $125 to $350 in extra cash, so he already has the start of an emergency fund, even though his goal may well be to build up his emergency fund to be at least $750, he also could start buying bitcoin right away since he has no bitcoin yet he already has some semblance of an emergency fund in place, and perhaps he could dedicate 75% of his discretionary income to bitcoin and 25% to his emergency fund.. ..and in the case of this guy, he has about $150 per month of discretionary income, so he could dedicated $112 to bitcoin and $38 toward building up his emergency fund.

Don't know why there's suggestion that there's no need for low coiner to have emergency funds since the same with people could able to spend they are also prone for risk to lose their money for something like wrong decisions or actions made. They should set it up according to the amount they can able to allocate, since everything is fine even if they are low coiner as long as they set up good plans for their future.

Setting up an emergency funds for 3 - 6 months is enough and when they achieve that they can proceed to use their money for their investment. Its crazy that other people seems don't have have timeline intended for their emergency funds. Since if they continue to save money for emergency funds used with no intention to stop, then I think they are wasting some opportunity to earn more especially if they hide their emergency funds on stable coins or in fiat.
Also I like your explanation on figures and for sure people would learn a lot from your insights given.

I am not going to claim that it is easy to figure out the balancing of the building of the emergency fund along with building the bitcoin investment, and surely it could take a year or longer to build up both of those (the bitcoin investment and the emergency funds) to be 3 months or more of the guys expenses.

For sure, a guy is going to need to be careful when he is keeping some of his emergency funds in various kinds of stable coins rather than keeping the money in cash that is denominated in his own currency (how his bills are denominated), and I am not going to claim that it is easy to figure out ways to hold such large amounts of cash, yet if a guy is building his bitcoin and his cash up at the same time, the quantity of bitcoin can help to justify the amount of cash or other ways of holding the back up funds as to show the reason why the funds are being kept (to protect the bitcoin and even to justify the building of the bitcoin funds to larger amounts that might end up fluctuating in their dollar/fiat valuations in great kinds of ways).

Quote from: asarfiar on March 30, 2025, 10:47:39 AM

Quote from: Umulala-alala on March 30, 2025, 05:36:58 AM

[edited out]

We all earn more or less income to make ends meet. But if that income can be divided in accordance with the right rules, then life can always be enjoyed beautifully. There are many people who earn good income and live well, but at one point the lack of proper decisions can be seen that life becomes difficult. So we should all divide the income into a few steps. In addition to emergency funds, you need to have a consideration and prudence fund. Emergency funds are needed to meet the daily needs and to sustain it.

Emergency funds are not used for daily needs. Emergency funds are back up funds that are built up from discretionary funds... .

Discretionary funds are the amount of money that you have left after you have accounted for your daily expenses through your funds for expenses. Funds for expenses are used to pay for your daily needs.. and if you have extra, then that is discretionary funds that can be used for anything you want, including the building up of an emergency fund and/or investing into bitcoin and/or any other way that you might want to spend such discretionary money.

The reason that discretionary income is called discretionary is because it is extra.. It is beyond your needed expenses. Of course you can create your own extra expenses that are discretionary expenses, and you can choose your standard of living so that your expenses end up being higher, so some of those extra expenses become part of your expenses, even though they are discretionary expenses that you chose.

Let's say that you have a business, and with that business you need either a van or a pickup truck, and you could buy a vehicle that would cost you around $2.5k and it will functionally work for your purposes, yet instead of buying the economical vehicle, you decide to buy a newer and nicer model that costs you $10k, and so surely within that expense, you have discretionarily chosen to increase your expenses by $7,500 for that vehicle, and maybe it gets you slightly more than the $2,500 version, yet maybe it is merely that you want more luxury that is not really necessary for the purposes of your business. Maybe with the $2,500 vehicle, you could have had bought it with cash, yet the $10k version, you cannot afford to pay for it with cash right away, yet you are able to finance the car with 8.5% interest rates, so then in essence after the various costs of the loan, you might be paying around $320 per month for the next 3 years, and by the time you paid off the whole car loan and the interest, you would have had paid something around $11,500... yet with deferred payments of the whole amount. There are various kinds of expenses that are discretionary, yet sometimes once they are locked in they might no longer be discretionary or easy to reverse.

Quote from: asarfiar on March 30, 2025, 10:47:39 AM

Need to have a consideration of a consideration. Because if you have a consideration fund, you will be able to create prudence funds and protect your emergency fund that will play an effective role in your long -term Bitcoin investment and the DCA system plays a more effective role in sustaining Bitcoin investment.

You are speaking a lot of gobbledy-gook with this paragraph in which you are inventing terms and even potentially purposefully convoluting your terms and any possible meaningful ideas that you might have. You might need to rethink what you are saying, and perhaps if you are using some kind of translation program, you need to make sure what you are saying makes sense in your native language too... because you are speaking a lot of nonsense when it comes to the English version of whatever it is that you might be wanting to say.

Quote from: Stormisover on March 30, 2025, 10:49:45 AM

Quote from: arwin100 on March 30, 2025, 10:23:37 AM

[edited out]

The idea is that instead of a low or now coiner to wait or say that they must has an emergency funds up to 3 to 6 months ready before they can start buying Bitcoin, the advice is that we can be buying Bitcoin gradually at the same time be building our emergency funds. We don't have to considered building our emergency funds first prior to getting started with our investment since it can be work on and be buying Bitcoin with the DCA, 3 to 6 months is a long time to be waiting to build up emergency funds before the start of buying Bitcoin,

If anyone is starting to build an emergency fund from scratch, it is going to tend to take way more than 3 months to build 3 months worth of emergency fund. Even if a person dedicates 25% of his income to building an emergency fund, it may well take 1 year to build up 3 months of income into the emergency fund.

Quote from: Stormisover on March 30, 2025, 10:49:45 AM

for someone who a discretionary income they can be allocating certain percentage of their discretionary income to an emergency funds and at the same time be allocating to their DCA. Generally an emergency funds is good for all categories of investors including a no coiner but it shouldn't be a criteria before starting of Bitcoin investment because the DCA strategy gave room on improving our selves in various areas and at the same time buying Bitcoin.

It could take well more than 1 year and maybe up to 2 years to build both the emergency fund and the amount invested in bitcoin up to 3 months each. The bitcoin value could have gone up or down in terms of its dollar/fiat value during this early stage building process.

Quote from: Promocodeudo on March 30, 2025, 02:23:01 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on March 30, 2025, 03:03:31 AM

It sounds like you are proclaiming a need to build emergency funds first, and sure you can do whatever you like, but I think that is a dumb way to go about it. From my point of view it is best to get started investing into bitcoin as soon as possible, and one of the only prerequisites before investing into bitcoin is to make sure that you have discretionary income, whether it is $10 or some other higher amount..and then work on investing every week and figure out your other various bitcoin-related and cashflow management skills along the way while you are already investing into bitcoin within your discretionary income.. with hopefully a goal of investing into bitcoin for 4-10 years or longer. If you cannot invest into bitcoin for 4-10 years or longer, then you might not have enough discretionary income in order to establish that and surely there should be efforts to figure out those matters, yet you might not even have to commit to investing into bitcoin for 4-10 years or longer to get started investing into bitcoin, yet it is still important to consider that 4-10 years or longer is likely the investment timeline for bitcoin.

In as much as I know that emergency funds are very important for someone that wants to start building a portfolio in Bitcoin investment, I also know that there's no where it was written that investors must have emergency funds ready before they can actually invest in Bitcoin, I think people misundertand this things that's why they get confused on how to start.

Whether the idea is written or not, each guy has to figure out the extend to which he get's started investing in bitcoin right away or gets distracted by nonsensical delaying tactics.

Quote from: Promocodeudo on March 30, 2025, 02:23:01 PM

Just as you said, what every investment need from the start is a constant income no matter how small it is just plan with it and start investing with the amount that can not put on pressure,

I did not say anything about a need for "constant income" prior to getting started investing into bitcoin, even though I did say that there is a need to have discretionary income.

Quote from: Promocodeudo on March 30, 2025, 02:23:01 PM

after all it is just for a start, it doesn't mean that the amount you started with will be maintained like that, one can actually increase his or her DCA once he or she has what it takes to do so, the major thing is to start the journey first because there's danger in waiting and procrastinating with this thing called emergency fund.

I agree with this, including that if a person builds a steady income then he is likely going to put himself in a better position to both continue his investing into bitcoin and also not be tempted to withdraw from it. Further, like you mentioned, he can increase his amout with the passage of time (and the increased comfort of his income) too.

Quote from: Promocodeudo on March 30, 2025, 02:23:01 PM

For me Bitcoin investment is about consistency and your ability to remain focused and persevere, the amount you use from the beginning doesn't really count rather what matters is your zeal to buy with higher amounts once you get better source of income and hodl for a long-term of about 10years upward.

I agree with the presumption that the longer that guys invest into bitcoin, the more likely they will be able to find ways to increase their discretionary income by increasing their income and/or by cutting their expenses. .. yet there still can be a lot of value to learn those kinds of lessons early in the bitcoin investment journey rather guys diddly-dallying around and taking a long time to figure out that maybe they should increase their bitcoin investment.

Bitcoin remains a kind of investment that continues to reward the earlier adopters disproportionately to the laggards, and so the earlier that any of us figures out value in regards to investing into bitcoin as aggressively as we are able to do (without over doing it), then the more likely we are going to be rewarded for our early aggressiveness... Bitcoin's investment thesis is not getting any weaker, even though the slope of its price curve is likely becoming less and less steep with the passage of time.

We are still early.. and there is no way to turn back the clock to make up for any mistakes that you made by not getting started earlier or not being as aggressive as you should have had been earlier. So, each of us decides from today in regards to how aggressive that we are able to be in regards to our bitcoin accumulation without over doing it.

You said a lot of good things, I used a lot of wrong words due to my misunderstanding. I want to prepare myself and seek advice, I hope I will get help.