Quote from: MainIbem on April 02, 2025, 03:52:18 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on April 02, 2025, 02:49:16 PM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on April 02, 2025, 04:23:57 AM

If I started during 2016, you're right. But I was a "trader" losing some money during that time before I decided to invest only in Bitcoin. If I started to Dollar Cost Average during 2019, it's obvious that I would have less units in Bitcoin.

I was merely lucky to have decided during the right time if we consider my situation. I lost some of my savings during my days of "trading" shitcoins before 2019.

I have no problem with the idea of starting out with lump sum, but that is different from saying that you are waiting for dips, even if that may well be how you are thinking about the matter.

In other words as soon as you figure out that bitcoin is the one, then it is best to focus on accumulation of it, rather than waiting as a strategy, and sure, if you have (or had) a lump sum to start out buying bitcoin, then good for you.

Your proclaiming that you have a buying on dip strategy comes off as a poor idea for a strategy, including your assertion that it is a good idea to wait until 2026 or 2027, which is likely not a great strategy, whether for you, an admitted low coiner, or someone else who might be even more of a low coiner than you.

But, sure, you can do whatever you like.. and maybe your gamble will work out, rather than the more assured thing of stacking sats.

Nothing concerns a new investor with buying the dip, atleast starting with the lump-sum is reasonable cause the person may be very financially capable to buy a very huge amount at once for a start but waiting for the dip for a newbie that's yet to have anything or a reasonable amount of coins in their portfolio is not advisable cause at that point you don't have anything in your portfolio so why wait, waiting would make them miss out on lots of buying opportunities since Bitcoin is volatile atleast if the person started with the lump-sum they already have something in their portfolio and would profit when it increase however, like I said earlier waiting would make them miss out on buying opportunities, so it's not advisable, I hear people saying that buying the dip is a choice but then an investor should have a reasonable amount of Bitcoin in their portfolio held for a long period before thinking of using the buy dip strategy which simply mean that you should atleast be a holder before thinking of missing out on buying opportunities, left for me the perfect strategy for a newbie is the DCA regardless of whether people think it's a choice for investors to use whatever strategy they like.

It has taken Wind_FURY a while to clarify what he is trying to argue, and sure, he may have outlined some of his facts earlier but I could not recall them.

So largely, he seems to be proclaiming that he is poor, so that is part of the reason why he has been motivated to make sure that he gets a good deal on bitcoin (by buying dips rather than buying regularly), so he keeps arguing that buying dips is better than just buying regularly as your money comes available, such as DCA.

So anyhow, he is saying that we should not count his first 2.5 years on the forum, since he was fucking around trading and with shitcoins during that time, and so it was not until some point in 2019 that he became enlightened about bitcoin, so then at that point perhaps he had a lump sum that he was able to invest into bitcoin, and he figured out that at some various points he should buy bitcoin (presumptively in early 2019 - around the time of this thread, so then he was able to get a bunch of BTC around $5k per bitcoin.

I have nothing wrong with that idea, including that a person might have $20k to $30k that they saved up all of their lives, and they decide to put that into bitcoin, in around 2019 and to get bitcoin for on average around $5k per bitcoin. That was the beginning of this thread too.

Mostly the bitcoin price has been higher than $5k after early 2019, because we had a surge of BTC prices from $4,200 to $13,880 in early 2019 and then a correction back into the $7k arena and then mostly UPpity since then, except for our March 2020 correction that brought up from $7,500 to $3,800 in a fairly short period of time and then we resumed upwards after that through the remaining of 2020... to $10k and beyond.

So there is no real way to proclaim that we are able to beat the buying of BTC prices when the BTC price mostly went up from the point of purchase, even though bitcoin has many of those price points in its history when it stair-stepped upwardly and then it did not come back down to the earlier prices, which surely is an argument for lump sum buying and even an argument for DCA buying (in such a way that you are buying as much as you can when you receive your money), yet I doubt it is an argument for buying the dip or waiting for the dip.

Another thing that I frequently have suggested for either bitcoin investor newbies or for people who have already been in bitcoin for a while, and then when they get any kind of a lump sum amount, if they had already authorized themselves to buy bitcoin with their lump sum amount (presuming that they already have established various back up funds, including an emergency fund) they should be trying to at least consider each of the three categories of buying 1) buy right away, 2) defer for DCA, 3) defer fro dip that may or may not happen.

So a person with a lump sum amount has those three buying options, and they can figure out how to apportion their BTC buys, and I surely have no problem with any ideas that emphasize buying right away or even considering whether there had already been a dip or if there might be further dips.

If the person who starts out bitcoin with a lump sum amount also has enough incoming discretionary that he is regularly able to buy $100 per week with incoming money, then those dynamics may also affect how he decides to buy with the lump sum that he has.

A guy who has an income can buy right away each time with his discretionary income or he could hold back some of the money for buying on dips.. maybe 75% buy and 25% holding back for buying on dips, yet Wind_FURY has seemed to have had been proclaiming that he is going to just save all of his new money and then wait for 2026 to buy, and sure there is no problem with that for anyone who had bought eugh or more than enough bitcoin, yet I still question the extent to which Wind_FURY fits into the category of someone who has enough or more than enough bitcoin, even though surely he has a lot of advantages over brand new bitcoiners if he had already had been able to lump sum buy in 2019 and then had various supplemental buying opportunties after 2019.. even though he is really saying that he ONLY bought in 2019, 2022 and 2023.. which surely I consider that to be whimpy buying, but hey guys can do whatever they like. It is their money, yet at the same time, in this thread we are trying to talk about various practices and potentially arguing for what we might consider to be better and/or best practices for guys who consider themselves to be within their bitcoin accumulation phase.

For sure, the more bitcoin a guy accumulates, then the more likely that he is going to start to feel that he is already somewhat prepared for BTC prices to go up, and so he will be in a better position to just wait for BTC price dips rather than ongoingly, persistently and consistently buying.

By the way another thing about Wind_FURY's story is that in mid-to-late 2023, he was frequently arguing about waiting to buy the dip while the BTC prices were in $25k to $30k range, and he kept saying that he was waiting for low $20k prices, and surely it seems to me that anyone buying bitcoin between mid-to-late 2023 to November 2024 (when BTC prices were between $25k and $69k), these guys are likely still doing o.k. even if some of them might have higher costs per BTC than other folks, but still it does not seen very likely that BTC prices are returning to any of those prices. Sure it is possible that we might get some prices in the $60ks, but it is not inevitable that BTC prices are going into the $60ks or that any of us will be getting opportunities to buy bitcoin in the $60ks again.. so I don't understand how he thinks that he is advantaged to be waiting to buy bitcoin in 2026 or even rationalizing his ongoing failures and refusals to buy bitcoin since mid-to-late 2023 until now... especially since he probably has money and he is likely a low coiner who wants more bitcoin.. but he keeps fucking himself over by waiting and then argument that waiting is a good strategy, when he had obviously fucked himself over by failing and/or refusing to buy bitcoin in nearly the last two years.

Quote from: Merit.s on April 02, 2025, 07:30:34 PM

Quote from: MainIbem on April 02, 2025, 03:52:18 PM

[edited out]

If a newbie is starting his bitcoin investment with only lump sum and start waiting for a long time to buy again will not be helpful for him to keep his bitcoin accumulation ongoing. Instead of using a very huge amount to buy at once, it's better that he lump sum with 20% to start right away and use 70% to spread into several weeks with DCA so that he will have the opportunity to buy bitcoin at various price every week to keep on accumulating his bitcoin regularly with consistency and persistent, so that it will be part of him to keep on buying for 4-10 years and till he reaches his bitcoin target.

It is good that an investor uses the right accumulation strategy at the right time so that it will enable you increase your bitcoin portfolio in a fast pace which should be your priority. But if you choose the wrong strategy at the wrong time, it will affect the fast growth of your bitcoin portfolio. When you buy with lump sum once in a while, you will miss out the dip because the price of bitcoin might go below your entry point but with DCA, you will buy at every price in the market including the bottom line of the dip.

I have no problem with your idea of spreading out payments of a lump sum over several weeks, yet there is a lot of discretion in regards to how to do it based on a person's personal factors, including how long he had already been buying bitcoin (so how much BTC he had already accumulated) and also perhaps if he is already in the process of DCA buying. Maybe he is already DCA buying $100 per week, so then there might not be as much reason to spread out the lump sum for either DCA or for buying on dips.

sometimes I like to consider 1/3 each as a kind of default starting position so that maybe consider buying 1/3 right away, 1/3 DCA and 1/3 buy on dips, but still a person can have his reasons to prioritize or to deprioritize one category or another. Maybe he already has buy on dip money in place, so then he might question how much additional money he wants to allocate to buying on dips and if so how he would do it... and these surely should be individual questions that each of us is able to answer based on our own particulars... and there likely is no right answer, even though there may be some answers that are better than others depending on where a person might be in his bitcoin accumulation journey.

Quote from: Princess Leah on April 02, 2025, 09:44:50 PM

Quote from: POPOLUV on April 02, 2025, 05:18:27 PM

I'm overwhelmed and short words, you have just given the best advice in a cool manner that i amend my wrong view of always wait for the dip to eventually happen, from today my focus will base on how to accumulate Bitcoin, by using dollar cost averaging strategy.

That's one of the best advise you can get here and am glad you amended your view concerning the buy dip strategy instead of arguing about it or trying to prove a point, waiting for the dip is never a good idea, if you've been following this thread for long you'll noticed that it's been discussed and JayJuanGee who most of us here gain more knowledge concerning Bitcoin investment from due to his experience have stated severally that someone who waits for the dip before investing on Bitcoin would likely miss out on the chances of buying cheaper.

Anyways, it's good that you've taken note of that and I want to add that you can still implement the DCA strategy and also buy the dip whenever an opportunity comes, you mustn't necessarily wait for the dip to happen before buying and that's one very good thing about the DCA, it gives an investor the opportunity to adopt other strategies while on it.

For sure, I am not trying to substitute my judgement for what guys should do, since each of us has to take responsibility for our own actions including if there might have had been better ways to go about our bitcoin accumulation journey.

I think that part of my point is to continue to assert that so many normies are either low coiners and/or no coiners, and even some of us who might have had been accumulating bitcoin for a while might still be low coiners even though we are not considering ourselves in those kinds of ways.

So there are many folks who fail/refuse to accumulate bitcoin as aggressively as they could have and should have done because they are focusing too much on price, and so there is really no way to know if any of us are going to be sufficiently prepared for up, unless we are continuing to buy bitcoin as aggressively as we are able to do, without overdoing it. And, it seems to me that guys who preoccupy themselves with the dip and buying the dip are likely going to be spending way more time waiting around rather than actually buying bitcoin, and their ongoing focus on price is likely going to contribute towards their wanting to trade rather than to invest.

There are going to be some guys who are successful to supplement their DCA with buying on dips, and surely in the end, it might be difficult to know if they would have had done better under one approach versus another approach, while at the same time, one of the most assured way to continue to build our bitcoin holdings is by continuing to buy regularly, persistently, consistently, ongoingly and perhaps even aggressively for perhaps a whole cycle or more, depending on if some guys might be willing to front load their investment into bitcoin so they will reach a "large enough" or "larger than enough" stack sooner than other guys who might not have a lot of discretionary income in order to attempt to build their bitcoin stash, faster rather than slower.

Quote from: MainIbem on Today at 02:14:31 AM

Quote from: Merit.s on April 02, 2025, 07:30:34 PM

Quote from: MainIbem on April 02, 2025, 03:52:18 PM

[edited out]

We're on the same page, seems you didn't get my point mate, it was based on Jays statement and I didn't mean that a newbie should or must start with the lump-sum I meant that, between the lump-sum and buying the dip strategy, starting with lump-sum for a newbie is more preferable than the other, atleast the investor have some stash of Bitcoin stored in their portfolio and when the price of Bitcoin goes higher then what the person is holding would definitely increase, it's far more better than waiting for the dip when one has nothing in their portfolio or yet to start. Of course I'm fully aware that the DCA is the most appropriate strategy for a newbie investor to start with, maybe you didn't take note of that or trace the reason for my statement concerning the lump-sum approach but were too bothered about correcting it whereas you didn't understand my point.

Of course, if we are talking about the advantages of having a lump sum amount available, we also likely need to recognize that so many newbies don't have much if any lump sum available to them when they start investing, and even if they do, they might be nervous about using all of that to buy bitcoin right away, which would be some of the advantages of including DCA and/or buying on dips for any lump sum that they might have available to them.

Another thing is that any person, whether rich or poor, might get extra money from time to time, and surely that extra money would be considered an amount that they could use as a lump sum, even though they might already be investing into bitcoin for a while when the extra money comes available. Surely any of us who have built up Bitcoin investing systems and back up fund systems and cashflow management systems, we are then in a much better place to use any extra money that we get and to plug some or all of that money into our bitcoin investing system as compared with someone who is not in the practice of investing or building various investment systems and investment ways of thinking about their extra funds.