Quote from: BitBakerr1 on April 14, 2025, 07:21:27 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on April 14, 2025, 04:04:02 PM

Quote from: BitBakerr1 on April 14, 2025, 07:01:40 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on April 14, 2025, 02:08:46 AM

[edited out]

Wow JJG now I know the reason why you where selling your Bitcoin and still accumulating, that feeling of not having enough yet it happens and a some people are in such situations right now they don't really know if they have accumulated enough or not.
JJG you said what helped you really realize and have confidence that you had enough was when Bitcoin price going up from in the $500s in early to mid 2016 and into the $2k to $3k arena in mid-2017 surely such a move in Bitcoin will help someone know if he has accumulated enough or not.

It seems that each of us has to figure out how to valuate our BTC holdings in way that makes sense to us, and now days, I like to use the 200-WMA, yet back in the 2014-2017 time frame, I was measuring the value of my BTC holdings in the same way that an overwhelming majority of folks measure such BTC values, and that is using the spot price.

I think that using the spot price is a kind of default, even though the spot price inevitably is fluctuating so much, we still tend to wand to use it, and surely we might compare the spot price to our average costs per BTC, and perhaps if we get into being several times in profits, then we start to feel that we have a cushion from price corrections, and surely I was not immuned from that kind of thinking.. which these days I continue to believe it is better to attempt to use something more solid (and like a bottom price) like the 200-WMA to valuate our BTC holdings.

In any event, whether we end up being correct or in error, each of us likely has to figure out what kinds of ways to measure our bitcoin holdings in order to help us to decide wether we are going to stick to whatever course of action that we have or if we might change our course of action based on our valuation of our BTC holdings.

Yes each of us likely has to figure out what kinds of ways to measure our bitcoin holdings and when doing this we may also make some mistakes and from those mistakes we will know the right thing to do whether we will remain or change our course of action based on our valuation of our Bitcoin holdings.
I think reading your story can make it very easy for some else to figure out what kinds of ways to measure his bitcoin holdings because believe me some set of people won't be able to do it there self until they get support from someone, there are some investors that has a lot going through there head and they find it hard to think through some things and that is why this forum is very important people like you Sir JJG help people know how to go about there investment, from all this discussions a lot of people are learning and is making them take the right decisions in there Bitcoin investment.

In starting out with bitcoin, there is no need to know anything beyond basic math, so for example does your income exceed your expenses, and therefore you have discretionary income that you can use to invest into bitcoin.

Surely there may need to be some practice in terms of keeping track, but the level of math is not very high for either accumulating bitcoin or valuating the bitcoin stash.

I know that a lot of people like to get caught up upon bitcoin spot prices, so they can get thrown off by ongoing and likely inevitable bitcoin volatility, yet figuring out how to valuate bitcoin based on the 200-WMA (bottom prices) rather than spot prices does not take high level math skills, just practice of monitoring what you are doing and attempting to account for what you are doing... and those kinds of skills can get better with practice, and they do not need high level math skills in order to get better at them.

Quote from: BitBakerr1 on April 14, 2025, 07:21:27 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on April 14, 2025, 04:04:02 PM

Quote from: BitBakerr1 on April 14, 2025, 07:01:40 AM

Maybe if the price went from $500 to $200 maybe you won't have this confidence that you have accumulated enough so maybe is safe to say the high rise in Bitcoin can help someone find out or build the confidence that truly he has accumulated enough or not.
Your whole story of your Bitcoin investment journey is an inspiration and a learning ground for both new and old investors so Sir JJG keep sharing your thoughts and experience.

You are likely correct with a presumption that I would have had continued accumulating BTC between $200 and $500 and perhaps I would have had continued even up to certain prices above $1k, yet at the same time, it was a combination of the quantity that I had accumulated (which reflects upon how much value that I put in), and not ONLY my average costs per BTC that motivated me in regards to self-assessing the extent to which I had enough or more than enough. The tipping off point might not have had been exactly any kind of a bright line, but instead a combination of factors, and surely the size of the BTC stash happens to be a pretty major part of the assessment, even though the target continues to move in terms of its dollar valuation.

Part of an ongoing problem in using spot price to valuate our bitcoin remains that we may well continue to consider that we have a relatively large price cushion, and then all of a sudden the BTC price drops 70% to 80% or more. Another factor that quite changed my own assessment of my status is that I had more than 20 years of investment experience prior to getting into bitcoin, which meant that I had been able to front-load my bitcoin investment, and so many normal folks (including many folks participating in these forum threads) are not coming to bitcoin with lump sum amounts, and they are going to have to tend to accumulate bitcoin for at least one or two cycles without even looking at the prices and/or the extents to which they are in profits, but instead their better financial interests (and perhaps even long term psychological interests) are likely going to be better served by their staying focused on ongoingly accumulating bitcoin without thinking too much about price - even if maybe they still are lured to the price, they might develop some tactics of holding back some of their ongoing bitcoin buys for price dips that may or may not happen, but they might feel good by their being able to have money during times when the BTC price does end up dipping.

You are right Sir JJG when you said that Part of an ongoing problem in using spot price to valuate our bitcoin remains, and just like you said that we may well continue to consider that we have a relatively large price cushion, and then all of a sudden the BTC price drops 70% to 80% or more, so it is better to valuate our bitcoin by the quantity we have and not by spot price of Bitcoin.
Bitcoin price movement is not guaranteed one may feel Bitcoin price won't go below a particular price and it those and when it those if you valuated your Bitcoin by spot price you will noticed the mistake you have made, so one should consider accumulating enough by the quantity of Bitcoin and not the spot price of Bitcoin.

using the 200-WMA is helpful too because it is a bottom price, and even though it is not a concrete (solid) bottom price, the 200-WMA is still a good bottom price reference point.

Quote from: BitBakerr1 on April 14, 2025, 07:21:27 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on April 14, 2025, 04:04:02 PM

Quote from: BitBakerr1 on April 14, 2025, 07:01:40 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on April 14, 2025, 02:08:46 AM

[edited out]

Waiting for the price to doubled before selling is actually a very good way to sell your Bitcoin as someone who has accumulated enough Bitcoin Because it will still keep your investment going.

I provided an approximate formula to briefly described the rate at which I was selling, yet my formula is incrementalist, so I was not waiting for the BTC price to double before selling, but the way that the formula was implemented, I would make sure that I did not sell any more than the allotted amount at various price increments - so for example, in the beginning, no more than 10% for every time the BTC price doubled, and surely as I already mentioned, that amount has gravitated downward (to currently less than 3%), and it is not exactly a precise amount but a ballpark amount that is mostly erroring on the side of holding an overwhelming majority of the value, allowing the value to continue to compound upon itself, so that after several doublings (several times compounding), there is way more options to sell larger amounts if I were to choose to do so, yet many times, I don't feel any needs to sell off larger amounts, even though I am authorized to do so.

Oh now I understand you just don't sell when the price double you had an allotted amount to sell at various price increments and you also made sure you don't sell more than that amount and that is how you allow the value to continue to compound upon itself, hope I'm not mistaken Sir JJG.

That is largely correct, and the exact amounts would vary and get tweaked from time to time based on a variety of factors that relate to my wanting to attempt to make it easy for myself and from time to time reconsidering spreads and increments and amounts of sales at which increments, including figuring out when to rebuy if the BTC price were to drop. I do outline some ideas about price based sustainable withdrawal in my sustainable withdrawal thread.

Quote from: BitBakerr1 on April 14, 2025, 07:21:27 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on April 14, 2025, 04:04:02 PM

Quote from: BitBakerr1 on April 14, 2025, 07:01:40 AM

Those who are regretting now for selling off all there accumulated Bitcoin at once may have not if they had this idea.

Surely there are a lot of folks who sell off way too much bitcoin too soon, and I am not sure if it is greed or what, since they may well be selling before they have even accumulated enough and they are frequently selling with a motive to buy back cheaper.. which I think that those are inferior ways of thinking about bitcoin and/or how to manage a guy's bitcoin holdings.

From my perspective, first there is a need to get to a state of overaccumulation.

Then there is a need to not sell too much BTC too soon so that even if you choose to start to sell some of your BTC, you are never overly selling it and you are not selling with expectations to buy back cheaper, so you set your BTC sales amounts to be at such a level that you would not consider that you had sold too much, even if the BTC price kept going up... so largely you are likely continuing to sell from your overaccumulated amount and you are never running out of your overaccumulated amount to sell because the amount that you are selling is relatively small within the overaccumulated amount.

Surely, my whole system likely revolves around selling too little, and since I have already benefited from at least 8 doublings (compoundings), I have a lot of extra pent up bitcoin that could be sold, since the overaccumulated amount has been growing through the years rather than shrinking.. In other words, even though I have been continuously selling, I have not been overly selling.. so there continues to be a lot of extra that could have had been sold at earlier stages but it was not sold.. so it is just sitting within my BTC holdings as extra bitcoin that could be sold at any time, whether the BTC price is up, down or sideways.

Yes there's need to accumulate enough Bitcoin before thinking about selling, if you only accumulate little and then sell you are not different from a trader, we should have our own target and works towards getting to that target before selling and that target should be one that we make us accumulate enough Bitcoin.
Yeah I also I think that expectation to sell and then later buy back cheaper when there's a dip is not right because you will turn to and investor who waits for a dip before he can accumulate and how long will you continue to wait for a dip knowing fully it is uncertain to happen.
You are right JJG I think one should set his Bitcoin sales amounts to be at such a level that one would not consider that he had sold too much even if the BTC price kept going up.

These various concepts tend to make more sense when we have spent time accumulating bitcoin and we are trying to put them into practice for ourselves in order to find a balance that works for our situation.

Quote from: BitBakerr1 on April 14, 2025, 07:21:27 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on April 14, 2025, 04:04:02 PM

Quote from: BitBakerr1 on April 14, 2025, 07:01:40 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on April 14, 2025, 02:08:46 AM

[edited out]

Yes truly the bitcoin investment has outperformed expectations, a lot of people never believed Bitcoin will grow this big.
Your sustainable withdrawal plan is a very good one.

It seems to me that we can proclaim that bitcoin has outperformed expectations, while at the same time, understanding and appreciating that bitcoin's performance is still within expectations.

Maybe another way of saying it is that bitcoin has performed amongst the most bullish of expectations, so if we had set up various bear-case scenarios, various bull-case scenarios and if we had assigned probabilities to the various scenarios, bitcoin's actual performance would be within the higher of the expectations but it is not outside of expectations... which means that any of us could have had seen these actual bitcoin performances as within better-case scenarios playing out rather than worse case scenarios.

Some folks might even proclaim that bitcoin is right in the ballpark of prices, adoption, etc, that anyone could have had expected. There surely have been reasonably smart folks proclaiming even more bullish scenarios and even back in the earliest days of bitcoin. I believe within the first year of bitcoin's existence, Hal Finney had outlined scenarios in which he saw bitcoin's addressable market justifying well over $10 million bitcoin prices... so there surely have been a lot of bullish cases for bitcoin outlined over the years, even in bitcoin's earliest of years.

You are actually correct Sir JJG let's also take for example what is happening now in Bitcoin States are now adopting having a bitcoin reserve and more state are proposing to have there own bitcoin reserve this was not so years back Bitcoin has now become more valuable and known it was year's back so from this one can see the future actual bitcoin performances as within better-case scenarios playing out rather than worse case scenarios.

The varying network effects of bitcoin (as outlined by Trace Mayer) continue to grow, and the players continue to get bigger and BIGger and BIGGER.

Quote from: Derekfunds on April 14, 2025, 07:59:18 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on April 14, 2025, 02:08:46 AM

There are ways to calculate out formulas which would show that if a guy sells 50% of his BTC every time the BTC price doubles, then such guy would never experience compounding value in his profits because he would be cashing out all of his profits and merely maintaining his bitcoin investment size at the same amount that he put into it.

A guy who were to cash out 25% of the value every time that the BTC price doubles would be cashing out half of the profits and allowing the other half to compound upon itself.

Surely my choices to cash out up to 10% the value of bitcoin every time it doubled and then later going down to such values of cashing out only 3% every time it doubles, these cashing out amounts are still allowing 80% to 94% of the profits to continue to compound upon itself, and since my bitcoin holdings had gone through more than 8 doublings (see my compounding value discussion) from the time that the BTC price was $250 in 2015, so therefore an overwhelming amount of that value had been allowed to continue to compound upon itself at least 8 times so far, even though some of the amount was withdrawn out of the holdings... which I also claim to be serving as downside insurance, too.

Cashing out 50% or 25% of our Bitcoin investment anytime the price of Bitcoin appreciate is not a nice strategy most especially for low coiners and investors that haven't gotten to over accumulation stage because their portfolio won't look good even though they are taking profit because the investment will be in a stagnation point somehow. But for those investors who have accumulated enough and somehow feel they have gotten to there over accumulation stage someone JJG can decide to sell when the price of Bitcoin double or appreciate but I'm sure JJG can not sell 50% or 25 % of his investment even though he has enough Bitcoin because he is still somehow targeting or planning to have more Bitcoin in his portfolio because of what Bitcoin holds in the future.

Why would I sell large amounts if I can just cash out what I need as I go?

Sure, if I were to run out of all other income sources, then I would ONLY have my bitcoin investment, yet even if I am living off my bitcoin investment it still may well not mean that I would sell large portions at any given time. Even selling 10% per year would not even seem like any major problem, unless I were to be selling 10% every year and the BTC spot price were to be below the 200-WMA for extended periods of time, yet if my 10% sales per year are happening while the bitcoin price is largely staying more than 20% higher than the 200-WMA, then I cannot see how there would be any issue in regards to sustainability or needs to sell more in regards with any of that.

A person who has reached overaccumulation could sell 10% per year, and perhaps not even dwindle his overaccumulation amount with any kind of meaning, and I personally prefer the idea of selling 10% from the dollar value of the BTC based on the 200-WMA, so for example, I would argue that a guy with more than 17.47 BTC would be able to sustainably withdraw $80k per year in perpetuity so long as the BTC price largely stays more than 20% higher than the 200-WMA.. and also if the guy has more of a cushion higher than 17.47 BTC, such as 5 BTC more, then he has a large cushion in which he should not have to worry at all about withdrawing $80k per year and also being able to increase his withdrawal amount along with the debasement of the dollar (the increases in the standard of living, presuming those increases might be in the ballpark of 10% per year or less... so year 1 $80k, and year 2 $88k and year 3 $96.8k, etc etc.

Quote from: Derekfunds on April 14, 2025, 07:59:18 PM

Moreover, cashing out our Bitcoin investment even 10% or 3% is not suppose to be an option for a low coiner or an investor that doesn't have much Bitcoin in his portfolio rather there focus should be on how to accelerate there investment to a point they will now feel that yes, they have really accumulated enough and so they can play around with there investment if they want to.

Yep.. I recommend that everyone should make sure that they get to a status of overaccumulation before they start to employ sustainable withdrawal strategies.

Quote from: ejikeme24 on April 14, 2025, 08:30:44 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on April 14, 2025, 04:04:02 PM

In other words, even though I have been continuously selling, I have not been overly selling.. so there continues to be a lot of extra that could have had been sold at earlier stages but it was not sold.. so it is just sitting within my BTC holdings as extra bitcoin that could be sold at any time, whether the BTC price is up, down or sideways.

that is because you have been selling a little portion of your bitcoin, which is why you always have a lot of extra bitcoin left after you most have sold a little portion of your bitcoin, and of course using this formula will make you not to over sell your bitcoin. This is why this formula can be considered as the best formula ever, when it comes to the time of selling our bitcoin. And of course with this formula even if you're selling your bitcoin continuously definitely it won't affect our holdings.

There are a lot of variations of formulas that a guy could choose to exercise that would not necessarily deplete his bitcoin holdings once he reaches a status of overaccumulation. So I doubt that there is any perfect formula, even though I found a variation that works for me in terms of bitcoin value increasing more than any rate of withdrawal that I have been employing.

Quote from: ejikeme24 on April 14, 2025, 08:30:44 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on April 14, 2025, 04:04:02 PM

Of course, you can do what you like, yet I still have repeatedly stated that it is likely better to not begin such process of selling any of your bitcoin until you have reached a status of overaccumulation, so then the 10% that ends up getting sold every time that the BTC price doubles is overaccumulated amounts of BTC.

You're absolutely right JJG, and of course selling our bitcoin when we have not yet accumulated more than enough doesn't make any sense. Moreover, anyone who chooses to go with the method of selling 10% of his bitcoin when you have not yet accumulated more than enough bitcoin in your portfolio, Definitely you will end up messing everything up. However, this formula of selling 10% down to 3% everytime the price doubles is mostly used by those investors who have already accumulated more than enough bitcoin in their portfolio, and not for those new investors who are still struggling to build their bitcoin portfolio.

Yep. Guys do sometimes misapply the formulas and try to trade them rather than focusing on making sure that they reach a BTC overaccumulation stage first.

Quote from: ejikeme24 on April 14, 2025, 08:30:44 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on April 14, 2025, 04:04:02 PM

It seems to make less sense to start to sell BTC before reaching such overaccumulation status because you would then be engaging in selling and buying at the same time.

Which is very wrong, anyone who is into bitcoin investment should make sure he get to the extent of overaccumulation before he/she will think of selling, so that we shouldn't be looking at buying and at same selling our bitcoin.

Yep. It makes no sense to sell and buy at the same time rather than figuring out some ways to make sure to reach overaccumulation prior to starting to sell any BTC.

Quote from: ejikeme24 on April 14, 2025, 08:30:44 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on April 14, 2025, 04:04:02 PM

Surely, you might be able to come up with your own possible reasonable formula that might involve selling before reaching overaccumulation status, yet that seems more like trading to me, rather than investing. I don't recommend trading bitcoin since bitcoin is amongst the best (if not the best)

Yeah, is obvious that selling our bitcoin before reaching overaccumulation status is just like that of trading. any investor that chooses to use this formula is definitely going for short term profit and not for the long term. And of course I Sense it through your posts because ever since I started going through your post I have never seen you in anyway recommending bitcoin trading to anyone here, instead you're still against it. Because you knew that trading has a high level of risk, than that of crypto investment More especially (bitcoin)

Well if we try trading or getting involved in shitcoins, hopefully we can limit those kinds of activities to less than 10% the size of our bitcoin investment so that we do not get too distracted with our time, energies and/or invested value.

Quote from: ejikeme24 on April 14, 2025, 08:30:44 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on April 14, 2025, 04:04:02 PM

I agree that the lower amounts of cashing out are better, especially if you are still inclined to allow your BTC holdings to grow rather than withdrawing from them, and also if you have other sources of income, you might not be in a position of withdrawing from your bitcoin. Surely at some point a guy might decide to quit work and then to life off of his bitcoin, and at that point, you would likely prefer that your bitcoin is either able to sustain you or at least to supplement other income sources that you might have that are able to sustain you at your current standard of living and any anticipated improvements in your standard of living.

Your point is very clear JJG, though I have a source of income but I don't earn a decent amount. And I have been in this accumulating process some months ago, and I have not accumulated enough stash of bitcoin I just want to Stick to making the accumulation until when I finally reach the status of overaccumulation. That's when I can decide if I will go for 5% everytime the price doubles, which is why i make used of the word "prefer" because I have not gotten to the level were I can make use of that formula.

Even if you are investing in the ballpark of 15% of your income into bitcoin, it still is going to take you around 7 years before you have even invested 1 whole year of your salary into bitcoin, and I am not sure if that would even be enough to proclaim that you have reached a status of overaccumulation, unless you were able to front load your bitcoin investment and to get to such overaccumulation status earlier than 7 years.

Quote from: Humblevirus on April 14, 2025, 10:12:23 PM

Quote from: Derekfunds on April 14, 2025, 07:59:18 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on April 14, 2025, 02:08:46 AM

There are ways to calculate out formulas which would show that if a guy sells 50% of his BTC every time the BTC price doubles, then such guy would never experience compounding value in his profits because he would be cashing out all of his profits and merely maintaining his bitcoin investment size at the same amount that he put into it.

A guy who were to cash out 25% of the value every time that the BTC price doubles would be cashing out half of the profits and allowing the other half to compound upon itself.

Surely my choices to cash out up to 10% the value of bitcoin every time it doubled and then later going down to such values of cashing out only 3% every time it doubles, these cashing out amounts are still allowing 80% to 94% of the profits to continue to compound upon itself, and since my bitcoin holdings had gone through more than 8 doublings (see my compounding value discussion) from the time that the BTC price was $250 in 2015, so therefore an overwhelming amount of that value had been allowed to continue to compound upon itself at least 8 times so far, even though some of the amount was withdrawn out of the holdings... which I also claim to be serving as downside insurance, too.

Cashing out 50% or 25% of our Bitcoin investment anytime the price of Bitcoin appreciate is not a nice strategy most especially for low coiners and investors that haven't gotten to over accumulation stage because their portfolio won't look good even though they are taking profit because the investment will be in a stagnation point somehow. But for those investors who have accumulated enough and somehow feel they have gotten to there over accumulation stage someone JJG can decide to sell when the price of Bitcoin double or appreciate but I'm sure JJG can not sell 50% or 25 % of his investment even though he has enough Bitcoin because he is still somehow targeting or planning to have more Bitcoin in his portfolio because of what Bitcoin holds in the future.

Moreover, cashing out our Bitcoin investment even 10% or 3% is not suppose to be an option for a low coiner or an investor that doesn't have much Bitcoin in his portfolio rather there focus should be on how to accelerate there investment to a point they will now feel that yes, they have really accumulated enough and so they can play around with there investment if they want to.

I agree with you that it is not a good idea for low coiners to take out profits whenever Bitcoin appreciates because that will never allow them to accumulate enough Bitcoins. However, if I understand correctly, I don't think JayJuanGee is encouraging any investor to sell 50% or 25% of their Bitcoin investment when the price appreciates.

JayJuanGee is simply trying to explain that if an investor sells 50% of their Bitcoin whenever their investment doubles, they might be able to make a good profit compared to someone who cashes out 25% whenever their investment doubles. Similarly, the person who always cashes out 25% cannot compare to someone who only takes 10% when their Bitcoin investment doubles.

I seem to be arguing the opposite.

A person who takes out 50% every time the BTC price doubles is never going to enjoy any compounding effects of his bitcoin investment since he continues to take out all of the profits and so the profits cannot compound.

The lower the amount that is withdrawn, then the greater the compounding effect.

Quote from: Humblevirus on April 14, 2025, 10:12:23 PM

JayJuanGee is explaining that if an investor avoids cashing out a large percentage of their Bitcoin investment, their remaining investment will continue to grow and bring them more profit. The profits that the investor leaves untouched will generate even more profits. On the other hand, an investor who cashes out 50% of their Bitcoin investment whenever it doubles will not see as much growth. Taking smaller percentages of profit whenever the investment doubles allows for greater increases in profit over time.

Ok. This part you summarized correctly.

Quote from: Catenaccio on Today at 12:12:55 AM

Quote from: Derekfunds on April 14, 2025, 07:59:18 PM

Cashing out 50% or 25% of our Bitcoin investment anytime the price of Bitcoin appreciate is not a nice strategy most especially for low coiners and investors that haven't gotten to over accumulation stage because their portfolio won't look good even though they are taking profit because the investment will be in a stagnation point somehow.

Holding a long time is key to get massive profit for your Bitcoin portfolio with years and two, three market cycles. Surely if possible, holding your bitcoin for more than 3 cycles would be so great.

It's not bad to cash out (take profit) with 25% or 50% of your Bitcoin investment portfolio, if you already have x2, x4 your initial capital. I say this is good strategy for new investors, because by taking profit 25% or 50% of investment portfolio, they can take their initial investment capital back, and keep it safe. They can be flexible with % for taking profit with this purpose, like if their portfolio is x2, they can take profit 50%; if their portfolio is x4, they can take profit 25%; and if their portfolio is x5, they can take profit 20% and so on.

Remember that after taking initial capital back, they can feel very safely and comfortable with investment. They can work, get money, and use it for DCA in future, it's another way to accumulate more bitcoin.

This strategy is meaningful for new investors who bet most of money for Bitcoin investment, and don't have fund for emergency. Taking initial capital back, and use it as emergency fund after their finance was improved is very good strategy.

You seem to be describing situations of overly withdrawing capital and profits from your bitcoin to such an extent that you are likely never going to make much if any progress to get ahead when you are so anxious to withdraw so much and speculating that you are doing "the more profitable" thing, when you are overly depleting your BTC holdings and not allowing your bitcoin holdings to sufficiently appreciate prior to withdraw from it.