Quote from: edy_58 on Today at 07:58:48 AM

Quote from: Gost ms on Today at 05:11:05 AM

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Everyone certainly has their own reasons for selling when they have seen profit, but of course this has changed the planning they have made before, but if only they could still hold on longer according to the plan when they bought, of course the profit they got would be greater than selling now.
I agree with you to avoid trading as a beginner because the risk of losing the money we have is very large, but when planning to hold it for the long term, of course we have to make good plans and continue investing until we reach the profit target we want.

What are you going to do once you reach the target level that you want? Sell?

Quote from: Gallar on Today at 01:40:49 PM

Quote from: BITCOIN4X on April 15, 2025, 05:48:22 PM

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In addition, about selling, maybe this can indeed be done when our accumulation goal has been achieved. For example, if you intend to have 10 bitcoins by using the DCA purchase strategy. So before that goal is achieved, I think you shouldn't think too much about taking advantage. Because if before the target is achieved you have started selling your bitcoins, the results of your bitcoin investment profits will definitely not be optimal (although gradually). That is why before we reach our target (the number of bitcoins we want to own), it is better for us to focus on continuing to accumulate.

Ok. Let's say that right now you have a goal to accumulate 10 bitcoin, and so if you had 10 bitcoin right now, then you will have had reached your target accumulation level. Then what are you going to do?

I am a little confused about who or what situation you might be talking about. Surely, if BITCOIN4X had been accumulating $350 worth of bitcoin every week since his forum registration date, then right now, he would have had invested $130k (which is quite a lot) and accumulated about 9.3 BTC, so he would be close to reaching 10 BTC, perhaps in the next couple of years. For sure anyone who has spent 7-ish years or more accumulating bitcoin may well would have had a combination of DCA amounts and also various lump sum amounts along the way... Perhaps, depending on the level of aggressiveness and also depending on the kind of cashflow the person might have had.

Surely it is different to proclaim how many BTC a guy might want to have right now and then to figure out how close he is to such goal, or perhaps to have a target into the future that might have a general timeline and a general amount for reaching such target... but then there still would be the question of what to do once reaching the target.

I agree with your overall point to not get distracted in terms of selling prior to reaching the goal, yet I still have some troubles to consider the meaning of a goal of 10 Bitcoin in the abstract since 10 bitcoin 1-3 years ago within the time of your forum registration does not mean the same as 10 bitcoin 7 years ago, versus today or even into the future what will be the meaning of 10 bitcoin. Sure, I don't have any problem with guys formulating bitcoin quantity goals, but they also likely need to consider their bitcoin quantity goals within a context of their dollar value or perhaps the number of years of income such bitcoin might represent.

I also understand that you might choose 10 bitcoin because it is a round number, but it seems that even a guy who had been accumulating bitcoin fairly aggressively would have had a hard time accumulating even 10 bitcoin within the past 7 years or so, even though surely he might have had been able to front load his investment in 2018, 2019 and/or 2020, which may well have had gotten him a lot closer towards reaching a 10 Bitcoin or even higher amount. A guy in 2018 could have had bought bitcoin anywhere between $3,200 and $6k without too much difficulty if he would have had capital available, and so $32k to $60k are not very large amounts of money to buy 10 BTC during that time as compared with how much it would have had cost to spread out the amounts (the $130k listed above) or even the $850k that it would take at today's prices... so no matter what either frontloading the investment or trying to invest over time would still have had resulted in quite greater profitability of the BTC holdings today.

And, even if someone were to have something like 10 BTC. Right now, the 200-WMA value of such 10 BTC stash would be right around $460k, which from my own perspective would be enough to justify a sustainable (and even perpetual) $46k per yer withdrawal rate... so it is not a bad place to be, even though that level of income might not be quite enough for someone to feel rich, so they might either need to accumulate more BTC or to allow some more pasage of time for their sustainable withdrawal rate to go up based on that same quantity of BTC.

Quote from: tiCeR on Today at 02:00:34 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 01:26:04 AM

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I think this is the standard care for someone not understanding the concept of opportunity cost very well. Whether I am in profit or not does not matter too much when I understand what I invested in and conclude that the upside potential is still outweighing the short term financial gain from divesting.

The funny part about bitcoin is that it has proven wrong those who thought the upside potential would not outweigh their short term financial gain or their desire for short term pleasure anymore. We are now in a similar environment when bitcoin goes a bit up and down, people begin feeling unsure about their position and they question the upside potential while also changing the premises based on which they once decided to invest.

Yep.. Even some relatively long term investors get shaken out of way too many of their bitcoin during these kinds of times of price volatility that includes decent size corrections and then failure of the BTC price to go up as they had been anticipating.

Zooming out should show that we are in an amazing place, even though a lot of folks still get shaken out of a lot of their holdings, and surely there are even a decent number selling at a loss, too.

Quote from: tiCeR on Today at 02:00:34 PM

Opportunity cost has been tremendous and even worse so for those who sold their bitcoin and bought something like a car that suffers from depreciation, which means they sell an asset with upside potential to then buy an asset that loses in value over time. If someone buys a house and rents it out, then so be it if economic circumstances led them to think that decision would be best for them personally. But so far I am not sure there was a situation when bitcoin was high and real estate was low. Real estate prices went through the roof when bitcoin went through the roof because of that low interest rate environment.

Surely folks are tempted by houses and cars, and each of them might have some utility value, but yeah, there can be miscalculations in regards to what they are worth and how costly of a car or house is needed and even if many houses actually appreciate in value rather than potentially just holding their value, but then accounting for many of the maintenance costs and other costs, there can be losses with houses that are not always appreciated when going through the calculations.

For example, if we might have had wanted to buy a $300k house back in 2019, then maybe we might have had spent anywhere between 30 to 90 bitcoin on such a house (of course depending on exactly when we bought such house), yet even if the house price had doubled in the past 6 years and now such house is worth $600k,, right now such house would ONLY cost us right around 7 BTC... so it sometimes can be difficult to measure which asset is better to hold, and people will frequently proclaim that merely because bitcoin has appreciated at such levels in the past, it does not mean that bitcoin is going to out perform houses in the future. Many times folks are employing faulty thinking and failure/refusal to actually appreciate what has been happening in bitcoin, what continues to happen in bitcoin, and what is likely to happen in the future.

Sure, there is no problem considering that bitcoin's rate of appreciation is not likely to go up as much as it had done historically, yet at the same time, there should not be any big stretches of imagination needed to continue to recognize that bitcoin remains a better place to put value... but yeah, people are not going to believe it, and so those of us investing into bitcoin or going to continue to enjoy the benefits of asymmetric information, even though anyone has equal opportunities to study bitcoin so that they can get started and get off of zero rather than continuing to remain sitting on the sidelines.. and continuing to be screwed by the ongoing debasement of the dollar and dollar related assets.

Quote from: tiCeR on Today at 02:00:34 PM

Ultimately it doesn't matter what other people do as long as they are not one of these trolls on social media advising everyone to do the same as they do. Some people made life-changing money and that is good for them if they are in peace with their decision, but the majority of people I talk to share the same problem, sold too early and reget it and they could have decided otherwise. Some have to sell as special circumstances can occur beyond what someone's risk assessment was at first, but that doesn't apply to the maority.

Sometimes we might consider that many folks might improve their situation by adjusting their position size, but much of their problem relates to failure/refusal to study the asset that they are invested into in order to recognize and/or appreciate what they are holding. So surely, I have no problem with folks who may well choose to not study deeply into bitcoin when they are first getting started and while they are establishing their cashflow management systems; however, as they invest and the more value that they have invested into bitcoin, they should become inspired to know more and more about the asset in which they had invested, but they end up not knowing much if anything about bitcoin beyond number go up, and so when number does not continue to go up within their expectations (timeline and/or quantity), they abandon ship.

Quote from: tiCeR on Today at 02:00:34 PM

Risk taking capacity has huge impact though and that is why the rich get richer. They don't have the same thoughts when their bitcoin investment went up 100x as someone who has less risk taking capacity and feels bad about holdig because of fearing to lose it when simultaneously that person believes in the investment to increase in price further.

It surely does help when folks have more discretionary income (or even wealth) in which they can work with, even though surely anyone can benefit greatly from bitcoin as long as they have a discretionary income, and many times, poor people will tend to have way less discretionary income, yet there still might be some poor people who have a lot of discretionary income, but they are just managing their discretionary income in inferior ways.

Quote from: Tmoonz on Today at 04:52:07 PM

Quote from: Doan9269 on Today at 03:39:48 PM

Quote from: Gallar on Today at 01:40:49 PM

Quote from: BITCOIN4X on April 15, 2025, 05:48:22 PM

Quote from: Doan9269 on April 15, 2025, 05:24:25 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on April 15, 2025, 04:45:00 AM

~Snip

This majorly applies to the investors and not traders, and also from what he said here, we must be able to employ a sustainable withdrawal strategy, which means we are not just only going to sell at any point in time because we feel like doing so, but it must be done on a thorough and orderly manner to which will be a profitable decision for us to sell after adopting the use of a particular selling strategy, i have witnessed some selling at loss, thinking it is more saver for them than to have an elongated loss session on their investment, we have several examples related to when some have made a selling decision at loss and some are making profits in the same way because of the strategy they all used make withdrawal.

Selling at a loss is in fact not a good decision if at the same time they have additional capital to accumulate. I know some holders may be afraid of having their investment value drop any lower due to high selling pressure, but in reality the market will only recover after over selling.

If I have to sell, then I will not sell some, but I will sell everything at the same price and plan to reinvest at a later time. I don't fully know what the purpose of selling some of it is if in the end the held asset is sold at a lower price considering market dynamics that are difficult to predict. Price volatility provides an opportunity for anyone to buy at low prices and sell at high prices, this cycle can be exploited by anyone.

Does this talk lead to panic when there is a price drop that occurs in bitcoin, if true why should you panic selling. Because if you are a long-term investor in bitcoin, you should not sell your assets when there is a price correction or decline. Because remember the goal of long-term investment is definitely more than two cycles, so why should you sell it because you panic. Because basically the price of bitcoin will definitely continue to experience a higher increase even though there will definitely be a correction. So the point is not to instill a trader's mindset when investing in bitcoin. Because it is certain that if a trader's mindset is applied to the investment that we are running in bitcoin, I am sure the results will not be as optimal as investors who are truly total with their determination.

In addition, about selling, maybe this can indeed be done when our accumulation goal has been achieved. For example, if you intend to have 10 bitcoins by using the DCA purchase strategy. So before that goal is achieved, I think you shouldn't think too much about taking advantage. Because if before the target is achieved you have started selling your bitcoins, the results of your bitcoin investment profits will definitely not be optimal (although gradually). That is why before we reach our target (the number of bitcoins we want to own), it is better for us to focus on continuing to accumulate.

The mistake that most investors found in this category made is that they don't properly position their minds towards what they are doing, you can't apply the same idea or strategy in dealing with altcoins to bitcoin, that is not possible because is far better and advanced to invest than other cryptocurrencies, now going further on panic, I don't know why there should be panic when we are not new to the system, if the market dips then you hold and when it pumps you sell, there's no need for FOMO because this is what will cause some investors to now go into the actual loss they would have avoided from the first time.

We should not trade in fear, it helps in nothing than to instigate us to lose, because we don't know what to expect and also what may comes in after we have invested, some traders have stand on their ground to the toughest time and ensure that they remained there till it passed and it later turns a profitable one for them, when we are experienced at what we do, we are not going to fall a victim of fear or be intimidated by the market reaction, instead we are going to remain till we turn the table around on our own personal interest and our investment turns a profitable one.

It would have been more better to say when the market dip will buy more (keep buying) and when it pumps will keep buying until the long term goals is achieve and that is what makes you an investor, the dip offers buying more Bitcoin at a lesser price compared to its previous high hence we don't just hold our asset in dip but see as advantage to more Bitcoin and not with the mindset of selling when it pumps, you sounded more like a trader than an investor. An investor maximize every buying opportunities by buying Bitcoin all the time until they reach their targets.

Whoops. I accidentally merited that post, and I had not noticed the dumb trading advice contained within that post... and also mixing up ideas of trading and investing while acting like a trader can also be an investor, even though traders talk like that all of the time, and they cannot figure out systems to minimize and/or limit their trading.. so for example, if they admit that they trade, yet they limit their trading to only 10% of the size of their bicoin holdings, I might be albe to accept that they are mostly an investor..

Quote from: Cryptoprincess101 on Today at 05:41:55 PM

Quote from: Doan9269 on Today at 03:39:48 PM

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The whole context of your write up is about trading, though if trading works for you then you can stick to it but our discussion in this thread is focus more on how to invest, hodl for a long time despite market sentiments and volatility.

I agree with almost all of the points that you made in your post, except I would suggest that this thread is not just about investing - since the opening post from March 2024 (around the top of the price rise into the lower $70ks) was questioning whether to buy or sell bitcoin when we were in the $60k price region, and so from the OP there was a bit of a presumption that trading bitcoin might be an acceptable way to deal with bitcoin price volatility or even a way to build your bitcoin holdings...or to just completely get out of bitcoin with a sense that the top was already in.. which retrospectively, we can see would have had been a dumb idea to sell most if not all of your BTC in the $60k price range and then end up a low coiner or a no coiner when in the past 6-ish months, we had risen out of the $60ks and passed through the $70ks and went into the $80ks, $90ks and the lower $100ks.

Surely in this thread, a lot of members have been arguing that investing into BTC is better than trading BTC, but the fact that many members are preferring investment over trading does not change that the sentiment from the opening post that does not rule out trading of BTC to be something that might be done.. including just buying bitcoin and then getting out of it when the price rises, which also seems a bit ridiculous to any of us investing in bitcoin and considering bitcoin to be a great place to put and keep value for long periods of time..

Members who are arguing trading in this thread or their preference for trading would not be off-topic, even though surely many of the traders also like to get into shitcoins, which shitcoins would not be on topic, even though there still can be some acceptable deviance from the topic that would not be necessariy pushing some off topic discussion, while mostly staying on topic.