Quote from: Mr Reporter on April 18, 2025, 05:20:25 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on April 18, 2025, 04:10:38 AM

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most newbies are really have this mindset of guessing bitcoin value potential, in addition to what you have said JJG Bitcoins decentralized nature and block chain technology have opened up new possibilities for secure, transparent and efficient transactions which have been the best asset that have ever had to mankind in history.

Another dynamic related to bitcoin is that it is likely able to supplant other kinds of money because it is more than 10x better than any existing system, whether we are referring to gold or any of the fiat monies, such as the dollar.

Quote from: Solokan on April 18, 2025, 05:39:33 AM

Quote from: ginsan on April 17, 2025, 02:11:58 PM

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people who invest first with a btc price below $ 1k are certainly luckier, especially if the btc they have has not been for sale because if it has been for sale, it will definitely lose the momentum of the btc price in the future and of course the price will be higher in the future. but of course yes it is true of course it is never too late to collect btc as long as we have the will and of course we can buy btc according to our abilities and the best in my opinion is the dca method which of course makes our mentality comfortable and indeed we don't need to look at the price because of course in the future the btc price will potentially be much higher. yes that is very true even though everyone buys btc at different prices but yes if the goal is to accumulate btc and store it for the long term of course that is a good thing and of course the one who holds it the longest wins because of course even if you buy btc at a price below $ 1k then if you don't hold it for the long term then you definitely won't get a big profit. your words are very good my friend and of course make people more enthusiastic in investing in btc because by not looking at the btc price when accumulating btc.

Of course, if anyone had been able to invest into bitcoin with an average bitcoin cost of less than $1k, then he may well would have had gone through a lot of ups and downs that would have challenged him, even if he had gotten in during 2016 or prior to that... Yet even from 2016, we had BTC prices go up to $20k and then come back down to $3k and then go back up to $69k and then go back down to $15k and then go back up to $109k, and back down to $74k with a floating amount of around $84k in current times... so those would have had represented changes in valuations of 20x, to 3x, to 69x to 15x to 109x, to then 74x and then to our current range of 84x... and so surely even a lump sum buyer may well have had been challenged in his holdings through so many of the ups and downs, and it seems that if he is able to make it through the earliest times of the price changes, then it likely becomes easier to hold after our having had bounced up in more recent times, so then it may not make as much of a difference anymore, as it would have had during the earlier days.

I am also not very excited about the idea of buying lump sum and then just sitting on our hands for 9 years or so, and I personally consider that ongoing buying is the better practice for anyone who might be trying to achieve some kind of a sustainable withdrawal system.

Let's suggest a comparative example of a guy who might have had bought about $20k worth of BTC in 2016-ish, so then he got 20 BTC, yet if that same guy would have had continued to invest $100 per week into bitcoin, he would have had invested an additional $47k, yet he would have also gotten an additional 11.5 BTC, and so surely even though the costs per BTC are higher, it would have had likely been better to have had been the guy who accumulated an additional 11.5 BTC.

Another thing is that if the guy might have had a goal of being able to passively withdraw $80k per year from his BTC, then the guy who accumulated 31.5 BTC would have had reached such status on around march 21, 2023 and the guy who only had 20 BTC would have had reached such status on about October 16, 2024.

Sure, there is ONLY around 1 year and half difference between the two dates, yet there are also a lot more options that come from having had built up more BTC in the bitcoin stash and in the extra amount of BTC that is likely in the bitcoin stash when the amount is starting larger.

Maybe also it is worth noting that right now, the quantity of bitcoin needed to generate a sustainable income of $80k per year is 17.44 BTC, so the amount of bitcoin needed for the same level is going down, and it is going down faster than the debasement of the dollar, so in that sense, I think that a person could give himself a 5% to 10% raise in the amount of his withdrawals each year once he were to start to perform the withdrawals. ... so if we go with 5% per year raises, then the first year would be $80k, then second year would be $84k, the third year would be $88.2k, the fourth year would be $92.61k etc etc... and at the same time, it is likely nice to have a bit of a cushion in the amount of BTC that is had as compared to the withdrawal rate, and guys have to figure out those kind of formulas to make sure that the withdrawal remains sustainable and he is not overly withdrawing.

Quote from: ginsan on April 18, 2025, 07:10:46 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on April 18, 2025, 12:18:58 AM

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Yes sir, in 2016-2017 of course it was a very good time to accumulate bitcoin, although I had started buying bitcoin at that time but I did not manage my investment planning properly so I made many mistakes such as depositing btc to gamble. However, the ability to learn by investing properly after I saw hundreds of large companies and new investors who continued to buy bitcoin, my interest grew to continue buying and holding it.

If you look at the cycle that has occurred, of course I think that I myself got a good opportunity because I took advantage of the moment by moving aggressively when btc fell to $15k. That was the best opportunity I remember most in accumulating bitcoin from a price of $15k - $25k.

I am glad that you were able to take advantage of the 2022 and 2023 dipping period, even though you would have had been better off to have had gotten more aggressive earlier in your time in bitcoin, but yeah, part of the problem with making mistakes and even learning from our mistakes, we cannot go back in time and change the mistakes, even though surely some of the mistakes may well have ended up contributing to our having more profound insight in regards to why our mistakes were important to fix...and surely no one can tell us as well as our own experience and our own coming to such realizations.

Quote from: ginsan on April 18, 2025, 07:10:46 AM

Quote from: Solokan on April 18, 2025, 05:39:33 AM

people who invest first with a btc price below $ 1k are certainly luckier, especially if the btc they have has not been for sale because if it has been for sale, it will definitely lose the momentum of the btc price in the future and of course the price will be higher in the future. but of course yes it is true of course it is never too late to collect btc as long as we have the will and of course we can buy btc according to our abilities and the best in my opinion is the dca method which of course makes our mentality comfortable and indeed we don't need to look at the price because of course in the future the btc price will potentially be much higher. yes that is very true even though everyone buys btc at different prices but yes if the goal is to accumulate btc and store it for the long term of course that is a good thing and of course the one who holds it the longest wins because of course even if you buy btc at a price below $ 1k then if you don't hold it for the long term then you definitely won't get a big profit. your words are very good my friend and of course make people more enthusiastic in investing in btc because by not looking at the btc price when accumulating btc.

They were lucky, of course because of the cheap entry they got, but we don't have to regret ourselves because we entered in 2020 or later because the moment at that time was also very good. For that, I only focus on the accumulation of bitcoins that I continue to do, the DCA Strategy is quite helpful and I am grateful for the level of full concentration in buying bitcoins because I have not missed a single week in buying bitcoins.

There are a lot of folks in bitcoin who come to the realization that they had approached bitcoin in a much more whimpy style than they could have had handled a more aggressive approach. Yet, sometimes m any of us might have to go through the periods of more whimpiness and even more conservativism prior to our ability to be able to advance to a more aggressive approach. The guys who got in earlier are still better off for their having had gotten in early, even if they had been somewhat more whimpy than they should have had been and could have had been.

Surely there are some guys who are able to early recognize a need to come to bitcoin aggressively from the start, and perhaps they just happen to be in a receptive place in terms of their own finances and/or psychology. I am pretty sure that if I would have found out about bitcoin at any time between early 2010 and even into mid 2013, I would have had not been ready to invest into it based on my own then finances and/or psychology and also how I was then using my time and energies in other projects that I had deemed to be important within my own ways of interacting with things in my life. Yet when I ended up coming to bitcoin in late 2013, I was specifically looking for a kind of investment to supplement other investments that I already had, and I was also specifically thinking about bitcoin as a kind of hedge that was similar to gold but better than gold.. so my mind was in the right spot when I started to look into bitcoin....that allowed me to focus in a somewhat aggressive way, but still aggressiveness within the frame of my then finances.

Quote from: Cookdata on April 18, 2025, 07:18:55 AM

Quote from: Solokan on April 18, 2025, 05:39:33 AM

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Luckier? I don't think so. Do you know that holding Bitcoin for 1 is year is like holding Bitcoin for 5 years, now imagine how emotionally stress a person that has hold Bitcoin in the last 10 years. If you look back to the thing that has happened to Bitcoin price, the multiple crashes that has happened in the past, you will doff hat for people that has never sold any Bitcoin. Anyone that is holding Bitcoin from that year to now deserver all the goodies they are having now and not the term "luckier".

There many people that had Bitcoin below those price, you have heard of the guy that had 10k Btc and was used to order a Pizza, you can refer to this thread for confirmation. Imagine the trauma that person will go through if he doesn't really has any Bitcoin after that he pull, he is still been celebrated yearly because that's some millions of dollars he just wasted on a pizza he could have use money instead, some people called it adoption but I can't get over it.

Lazlo had all kinds of bitcoin, so there is no need to worry about him having had spent 10k BTC on a couple of pizzas, and from my understanding, he did it several times, not just once, and he also did not regret making such transactions, especially at the time, bitcoin hardly had any price, and he was able to get 2 pizzas for his 10k bitcoin.

Quote from: Cookdata on April 18, 2025, 07:18:55 AM

Buying and Holding Bitcoin isn't easy, which is why you see alot of folks don't have the patience but believe me, there is a greater reward for been patient as a Bitcoin holder. This isn't an assurance but no regret either, there is no need to be running after small profits that you will end up finishing the next day. You are not just buying and holding Bitcoin because of the profits, the hedge against any financial issues that comes later be it government or policies that may not favour the economy, you are going to be every step ahead of other people and economy.

For sure, anyone who has been accumulating bitcoin for a while is going to be benefitted from their having had already gotten started, and anyone who is just getting started or just hearing about bitcoin and contemplating getting started, they will surely be advantaged by actually getting started rather than merely thinking about it.

Regarding luck.. There probably is some luck involved, but like you suggest Cookdata holding and even continuing to buy through the years is not ONLY attributable to luck... even though there may well be some luck involved, since folks are in different places at different points of their lives and in regards to their abilities to spend time, money and energies on something like bitcoin.

There surely are some folks who learn about bitcoin, yet they reject it and they even think that they are smarter for having had rejected it, yet frequently those kinds of folks do not tend to have very in-depth understandings of bitcoin and they have not really spent some time to study into bitcoin.

Quote from: Silikiem on April 18, 2025, 08:01:01 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on April 18, 2025, 04:10:38 AM

Quote from: Gost ms on April 18, 2025, 03:27:10 AM

Quote from: ZeroVinsonN on April 17, 2025, 07:27:28 AM

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There is no guarantee that you will make a profit by investing in Bitcoin. The Bitcoin market is very volatile, there is never a guarantee that you will make a 100% profit by investing in Bitcoin. But the risk in long-term investment is much lower than in short-term investment. No one is ever able to predict, all we can do is guess. For example, by looking at the market demand for Bitcoin and the history of Bitcoin, we can guess that the price of Bitcoin will increase in the future. In the case of long-term investment, you do not have to worry about small ups and downs in the market.

There is no reason to go from one extreme to another - to suggest that since bitcoin's price is not guarantee, and perhaps nothing related to bitcoin can be exactly guaranteed, and so therefore we are just guessing.

I doubt that we are guessing, especially since bitcoin has a lot of quite interesting features, including that it paradigmatically changed how value and/or information is communicated (transmitted), and so there are a lot of ways that bitcoin is likely to be used in the future that are not even actually clear today. There is more behind bitcoin than a mere guessing, but a foundational interesting world-changing invention (discovery), but hey you can think about bitcoin however you like, even though referring to bitcoin as a guess causes me to believe that you likely have hardly any clue about what bitcoin is as compared with other assets and/or how bitcoin differs from other assets.

People have different reasons why they delve into bitcoin market, is either to trade or to invest, either way is fine depending on the person ambition or motive.

Sure. People can do whatever they like, even dumb shit, but either way is not o.k., and it generally is not a good idea to fuck around trying to trade bitcoin, even if you think that you know how to trade, and surely it is probably better for an overwhelming majority of folks to limit any inclination that they have to trade to be less than 10% the size of their bitcoin holdings...

It can take a long time to build a bitcoin investment, and trying to trade it is not likely to be helpful towards making progress in actually building up a bitcoin investment, rather than putting decent amounts of it at risk, unless they might be able limit their fucking around with trading and/or gambling to less than 10% of the size of their bitcoin holdings.

Quote from: Silikiem on April 18, 2025, 08:01:01 AM

For someone who wants a good profit from his or her investments in bitcoin should not look at the short term, but look at the long term. In as much as we are aware of the volatility of the bitcoin market, there’s never a guessing work when it comes to the long term focus on investment on bitcoin, i doubt it because over the years bitcoin have proven that a long time investment pays off definitely.

Your general idea of long term implies an investment perspective rather than a trading perspective, and surely even though bitcoin has historically gone up and it is likely to continue to go up, it is not guaranteed to go up, so each of us should figure out our position size and our approach to bitcoin based on our financial and psychological circumstances, including considering our 9 individual factors.

Quote from: xSkylarx on April 18, 2025, 10:57:33 AM

Quote from: Samlucky O on April 18, 2025, 04:22:23 AM

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Are they not right? How realistically do you think it will happen and when. Will a bitcoin investor at his age of 30s now still be alive when it occurs. Will he still be able to enjoy his investment's profit or will it just be an inheritance for his next generation.

i would agree if we're talking during bitcoin's early years. It's hard to magine the market capitalization of bitcoin if it reaches the price of $170k. Bitcoin's circulating supply is currently at 19,852,975 as per checking coingecko website. Let's say it's circulating supply will be at 20 million when it happens. $170k × 20,000,000 = 3 400 000 000 000 or $3.4 trillion marketcap on bitcoin alone. The whole crypto market cap right now is at $2.67 trillion where $1.6T of it belongs to bitcoin. All alts will die in order for it to come true.

You sound retarded.

You think that bitcoin's price and/or bitcoin's addressable market is limited by shitcoins? You really don't seem to understand bitcoin, and even that bitcoin is both the leader and likely bitcoin's addressable market is also different from shitcoins.

Consider bitcoin as money and/or storage of value, then bitcoin's current addressable market is somewhere in the ballpark of $1 quadrillion currently...and sure, it could take 50-200 years for bitcoin to actually absorb that addressable market... As far as shitcoins, sure they may well still exist, possibly.. but there are not any shitcoins or even the combination of various shitcoins that really justifies investing into them or wasting time, energy and/or value on them absent perhaps just getting in and out of them as a trade.. not an investment, and it is not like this thread is either about shitcoins or about trading.. even though you seem to wrongly believe that shitcoins are relevant to bitcoin's market cap and/or its addressable market.

You likely need to learn more about bitcoin first so you might be able to figure out what bitcoin is so that you also might be able to understand what shitcoins are too, which are largely merely affinity scams that are playing upon bitcoin and sure they will likely continue to have value flow in and out of them, if you want to waste your time on participating in such all over the place pump and dump scam assets.

Quote from: Dunamisx on April 18, 2025, 03:53:12 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on April 18, 2025, 04:10:38 AM

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Bitcoin is all about opportunity and only those that sees it will be able to grab on it for their own interest, we may be having a number of investors, but only a few may be getting it right in doing what is right and expected of them.

There's also one thing i will like to appreciate with the bitcoin network, which is the room for an improvement, whereby any one interested in learning could gain more as he understand how to go being profitable whether by investment or trading bitcoin, this also calls for our intentional and deliberate actions with bitcoin, because this will shows that we truly knows and understand what we are doing.

Trading bitcoin is a bad idea for an overwhelming majority of folks. Sure there are a few folks who could profit from trading more than if they just invested, but those are very few, and probably anyone fucking around with trading (gambling) and they cannot resist but to try to trade their bitcoin, then hopefully they are able to limit their trading to no more than 10% of their bitcoin holding size, without cheating.

Quote from: Spaceman1000$ on April 18, 2025, 04:53:30 PM

Quote from: xSkylarx on April 18, 2025, 10:57:33 AM

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An investor sees things beyond his nose, 170k market price for bitcoin is very much possible, market capitalization for an asset like Bitcoin and the entire cryptocurrency will grow, forget how unimaginable you want to view it, some years back when bitcoin price was around 1k, how many investors foresaw that it will go beyond an ATH of 90k, this goes to tell you that, as day goes by, more people are interested in investing in the asset and the asset in turn grows in value. So An investor can successfully get double of his investment, however bitcoin investment is not something you will begin to see the profit almost immediately but on a gradual basis.

Yep. When bitcoin's price was around $1k, it's market cap was only around $15 billion, and surely even then, many folks considered that bitcoin was limited in terms of how much it's market cap could grow based on how much bitcoin had already grown... And surely, part of the problem in regards to those "self-imposed" limitations is that the folks making those kinds of assessments seemed to have little to no clue in regards to what bitcoin was and what it's addressable market might be.