Guys, I've been silent for a long time, but you guys have been arguing for over 20 pages, and the person who understands is the one who avoids arguing in general. You've wasted 20 pages without any benefit, and both teams are right, and each has its justifications, theories, evidence, and orientations. For those who argue, there are moderators, and if there was something worth arguing about, you would have found responses. I hope we focus on what the thread was created for. Thank you for all your efforts, and my regards.
I wholeheartedly agree.
...snip pages and pages worth of unproductive back-and-forth...
...snipping the latest round of back-and-forth...
Get it now?
No, he doesn't. And you don't get what he's trying to say. And you're both just going around and around in circles. And if y'all haven't come to a consensus or mutual understanding by now, it's not going to happen... Please move this discussion elsewhere, or just give it up and agree to disagree, please and thank you.