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Version 2
Last scraped
Edited on 06/05/2025, 19:48:52 UTC
Quote from:  Greg Maxwell 5-5-2025 Bitcoin Mailing List (google)
Part of the root cause is violations of the gentleman's agreement to not trade testnet coins for money

1.  I don't think there are any problems.  Bitcoin Testnet being large is a feature.  Testnet is larger than it has ever been.  Being this large has resulted in "bugs" being found and all types of benefits.

2.  I never made any agreement.  Nor was I represented in any agreement.  

3.  Bitcoin Testnet isn't traded for "money" it is traded for Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is not money.  Lots of people argue that Bitcoin is worthless, so two worthless imaginary internet coins trading against each other isn't that flabbergasting.  

Quote from:  Greg Maxwell 5-5-2025 Bitcoin Mailing List (google)
there is basically no low bar on how crappy you can make a cryptocurrency where some scammer won't try to sell it to some fool.

I agree.

As I said in a email, DOGE had a 1 billion coin per day block reward for 50 days at the start and it still traded against Bitcoin! (god lol)


Quote from:  Greg Maxwell 5-5-2025 Bitcoin Mailing List (google)
This also resolves the 'actual developers can't get coins problem' and if someone starts trading tnbct for money

This actually was never a problem.  Our faucet never ran out of Testnet coins.

What happened was that I allowed users to deposit money from other Testnet faucets directly into their exchange account.  This gave them easy access to drain competitors.

Thus far, I have stopped those direct deposits from being made into our exchange by implementing a minimum deposit fee.  After seeing the continued hostility, we will likely discuss removing these features and allowing our users to hit third-party faucets again directly.

Other faucets will run out of coins... we will not.

This is called a sound business plan vs a bunch of group that think they have the "Dev given" right to offer a service non-competitively.  Roll Eyes.  

Quote from:  Greg Maxwell 5-5-2025 Bitcoin Mailing List (google)
It may just not be possible to prevent degens from trading tn coins for money, -- I mean consider the altcoins that some people spend money on Smiley,  there is basically no low bar on how crappy you can make a cryptocurrency where some scammer won't try to sell it to some fool.  But what can't be prevented can at least be turned into a benefit.


Jesus fucking Christ, did you just call me a scammer and then suggest doing the same thing I am doing in the same breath?  Roll Eyes. Using my god damn website!!!! LOL.

AChow has >9000 Testnet v3 coins (Source: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5532559.msg65079446#msg65079446).  He could help kill that market and pocket 0.03 BTC with about 5 clicks... Other devs should take these free coins and vote that Testnet has no value by selling them into this stupid market.  

Don't claim that devs are running out, devs are hoarding them for some ungodly fucking reason, and have been for over a decade... Faucets are drying out, people are panicking, and yall have thousands of Testnet v3 sitting around doing nothing!

SELL OR GIVE THEM TO SOMEONE WHO WILL USE THEM.

Quote from:  Greg Maxwell 5-5-2025 Bitcoin Mailing List (google)
Instead you want the failure mode to be "if you do trade this for money, most of the profits end up going to support a developer or development, rather than whatever jerk decided to trick people into paying for it". Smiley

If you do this, I suspect it won't work out as you've imagined.  Scorched Earth is a two-way war tactic.  It'd be a shame if that market had a 50% trading fee... oopsie there goes half your little "scammer" Dev income!  It reminds me of how Steve Jobs dealt with Andy Miller:  https://youtube.com/shorts/VaY9r25qp5I?si=J1bk9SY0H06CsDae

There is no honor among thieves, and I consider your proposal putting you into that arena.

I have many other tools at my disposal for this.  The way the orders in the books stack, the number of confirmations, the ability to withdraw, and the list keeps running.

I might even freeze the premined account (locks market activity, withdrawals, and any other type of transfer) and demand KYC of any beneficiary... meaning you included.  I need a copy of your driver's license, a bill matching the address on your DL, maybe even a social security card scan, and your mom's maiden name, your finger prints, and finally... maybe a picture of a shoe on your head!  This may be required for *every* Bitcoin Core developer who is going to be receiving coins and/or has access to these massive, questionable Github changes.

Then wait for a lawsuit so I can use Requests for Admissions or Interrogatories... which would be very interesting.  

I swear to god, if I end up having to wake up at 8am for court involving fucking Testnet... you are going to be dealing with one fiercely pissed off individual!

Quote from:  Greg Maxwell 5-5-2025 Bitcoin Mailing List (google)
solution is just another reset. Smiley

Testnet v5 - Normal POW with a set expiration date for Testnet 6.  Premine it and make some dev coins, but don't be a dick about it or I'll fuck you six ways from Sunday.

We can do Testnet v6 whenever Testnet 5 starts trading... LoL!!!!!!!  Shit, I don't even think I have to launch a market any more for speculators to be interested in a new version.  

Many already consider me the Guardian of Testnet... I enjoy it and I like taking care of the community.

Expect us.
Version 1
Scraped on 06/05/2025, 19:23:43 UTC
Quote from:  Greg Maxwell 5-5-2025 Bitcoin Mailing List (google)
Part of the root cause is violations of the gentleman's agreement to not trade testnet coins for money

1.  I don't think there are any problems.  Bitcoin Testnet being large is a feature.  Testnet is larger than it has ever been.  Being this large has resulted in "bugs" being found and all types of benefits.

2.  I never made any agreement.  Nor was I represented in any agreement.  

3.  Bitcoin Testnet isn't traded for "money" it is traded for Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is not money.  Lots of people argue that itBitcoin is worthless, so two worthless imaginary internet coins trading against each other isn't that flabbergasting.  

Quote from:  Greg Maxwell 5-5-2025 Bitcoin Mailing List (google)
there is basically no low bar on how crappy you can make a cryptocurrency where some scammer won't try to sell it to some fool.

I agree.

As I said in a email, DOGE had a 1 billion coin per day block reward for 50 days at the start and it still traded against Bitcoin! (god lol)


Quote from:  Greg Maxwell 5-5-2025 Bitcoin Mailing List (google)
This also resolves the 'actual developers can't get coins problem' and if someone starts trading tnbct for money

This actually was never a problem.  Our faucet never ran out of Testnet coins.

What happened was that I allowed users to deposit money from other Testnet faucets directly into their exchange account.  This gave them easy access to drain competitors.

Thus far, I have stopped those direct deposits from being made into our exchange by implementing a minimum deposit fee.  After seeing the continued hostility, we will likely discuss removing these features and allowing our users to hit third-party faucets again directly.

Other faucets will run out of coins... we will not.

This is called a sound business plan vs a bunch of group that think they have the "Dev given" right to offer a service non-competitively.  Roll Eyes.  

Quote from:  Greg Maxwell 5-5-2025 Bitcoin Mailing List (google)
It may just not be possible to prevent degens from trading tn coins for money, -- I mean consider the altcoins that some people spend money on Smiley,  there is basically no low bar on how crappy you can make a cryptocurrency where some scammer won't try to sell it to some fool.  But what can't be prevented can at least be turned into a benefit.


Jesus fucking Christ, did you just call me a scammer and then suggest doing the same thing I am doing in the same breath?  Roll Eyes. Using my god damn website!!!! LOL.


Quote from:  Greg Maxwell 5-5-2025 Bitcoin Mailing List (google)
Instead you want the failure mode to be "if you do trade this for money, most of the profits end up going to support a developer or development, rather than whatever jerk decided to trick people into paying for it". Smiley

If you do this, I suspect it won't work out as you've imagined.  Scorched Earth is a two-way war tactic.  It'd be a shame if that market had a 50% trading fee... oopsie there goes half your little "scammer" Dev income!  It reminds me of how Steve Jobs dealt with Andy Miller:  https://youtube.com/shorts/VaY9r25qp5I?si=J1bk9SY0H06CsDae

There is no honor among thieves, and I consider your proposal putting you into that arena.

I have many other tools at my disposal for this.  The way the orders in the books stack, the number of confirmations, the ability to withdraw, and the list keeps running.

I might even freeze the premined account (locks market activity, withdrawals, and any other type of transfer) and demand KYC of any beneficiary... meaning you.  I need a copy of your driver's license, maybe even a social security card scan, and your mom's maiden name!  This may be required for *every* Bitcoin Core developer who is going to be receiving coins and/or has access to these massive, questionable Github changes.

Then wait for a lawsuit so I can use Requests for Admissions or Interrogatories... which would be very interesting.  

I swear to god, if I end up having to wake up at 8am for court involving fucking Testnet... you are going to be dealing with one fiercely pissed off individual!

Quote from:  Greg Maxwell 5-5-2025 Bitcoin Mailing List (google)
solution is just another reset. Smiley

Testnet v5 - Normal POW with a set expiration date for Testnet 6.  Premine it and make some dev coins, but don't be a dick about it or I'll fuck you six ways from Sunday.

We can do Testnet v6 whenever Testnet 5 starts trading... LoL!!!!!!!  Shit, I don't even think I have to launch a market any more for speculators to be interested in a new version.  

Many already consider me the Guardian of Testnet... I enjoy it and I like taking care of the community.

Expect us.
Original archived Re: [Bitcoin Core] I nominate myself to be Guardian of Testnest if it is premined.
Scraped on 06/05/2025, 19:18:37 UTC
Quote from:  Greg Maxwell 5-5-2025 Bitcoin Mailing List (google)
Part of the root cause is violations of the gentleman's agreement to not trade testnet coins for money

1.  I don't think there are any problems.  Bitcoin Testnet being large is a feature.  Testnet is larger than it has ever been.  Being this large has resulted in "bugs" being found and all types of benefits.

2.  I never made any agreement.  Nor was I represented in any agreement.  

3.  Bitcoin Testnet isn't traded for "money" it is traded for Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is not money.  Lots of people argue that it is worthless, so two worthless imaginary internet coins trading against each other isn't that flabbergasting.  

As I said in a email, DOGE had a 1 billion coin per day block reward for 50 days at the start and it still traded against Bitcoin! (god lol)


Quote from:  Greg Maxwell 5-5-2025 Bitcoin Mailing List (google)
This also resolves the 'actual developers can't get coins problem' and if someone starts trading tnbct for money

This actually was never a problem.  Our faucet never ran out of Testnet coins.

What happened was that I allowed users to deposit money from other Testnet faucets directly into their exchange account.  This gave them easy access to drain competitors.

Thus far, I have stopped those direct deposits from being made into our exchange by implementing a minimum deposit fee.  After seeing the continued hostility, we will likely discuss removing these features and allowing our users to hit third-party faucets again directly.

Other faucets will run out of coins... we will not.

This is called a sound business plan vs a bunch of group that think they have the right to offer a service non-competitively.  Roll Eyes.  

Quote from:  Greg Maxwell 5-5-2025 Bitcoin Mailing List (google)
It may just not be possible to prevent degens from trading tn coins for money, -- I mean consider the altcoins that some people spend money on Smiley,  there is basically no low bar on how crappy you can make a cryptocurrency where some scammer won't try to sell it to some fool.  But what can't be prevented can at least be turned into a benefit.


Jesus fucking Christ, did you just call me a scammer and then suggest doing the same thing I am doing in the same breath?  Roll Eyes. Using my god damn website!!!! LOL.


Quote from:  Greg Maxwell 5-5-2025 Bitcoin Mailing List (google)
Instead you want the failure mode to be "if you do trade this for money, most of the profits end up going to support a developer or development, rather than whatever jerk decided to trick people into paying for it". Smiley

If you do this, I suspect it won't work out as you've imagined.  Scorched Earth is a two-way war tactic.  It'd be a shame if that market had a 50% trading fee... oopsie there goes half your little "scammer" Dev income!  It reminds me of how Steve Jobs dealt with Andy Miller:  https://youtube.com/shorts/VaY9r25qp5I?si=J1bk9SY0H06CsDae

There is no honor among thieves, and I consider your proposal putting you into that arena.

I have many other tools at my disposal for this.  The way the orders in the books stack, the number of confirmations, the ability to withdraw, and the list keeps running.

I might even freeze the premined account (locks market activity, withdrawals, and any other type of transfer) and demand KYC of any beneficiary... meaning you.  I need a copy of your driver's license, maybe even a social security card scan, and your mom's maiden name!  This may be required for *every* Bitcoin Core developer who is going to be receiving coins and/or has access to these massive, questionable Github changes.

Then wait for a lawsuit so I can use Requests for Admissions or Interrogatories... which would be very interesting.  

I swear to god, if I end up having to wake up at 8am for court involving fucking Testnet... you are going to be dealing with one fiercely pissed off individual!

Quote from:  Greg Maxwell 5-5-2025 Bitcoin Mailing List (google)
solution is just another reset. Smiley

Testnet v5 - Normal POW with a set expiration date for Testnet 6.  Premine it and make some dev coins, but don't be a dick about it or I'll fuck you six ways from Sunday.

We can do Testnet v6 whenever Testnet 5 starts trading... LoL!!!!!!!  Shit, I don't even think I have to launch a market any more for speculators to be interested in a new version.  

Many already consider me the Guardian of Testnet... I enjoy it and I like taking care of the community.

Expect us.