Quote from: stwenhao on May 21, 2025, 03:44:16 AM

Testnet was literally created to be raped, because then, you can push it to its limits, see in practice, what happens, when you break some things, and then implement protections for the main network.

I fully agree. I think I've contributed.

Quote from: stwenhao on May 21, 2025, 03:44:16 AM

Of course, testnets were made by aliens, and people just found them, and simply joined.

Quote from: BayAreaCoins on May 21, 2025, 02:11:06 AM

Part of my experiment is to see how it feels when Bitcoin Developers target your beliefs... so, all of this is to be expected and I do consider myself a Bitcoiner helping Bitcoin.

Y'all are just emotional people, programmable money may not be emotional, but the neckbeards most certainly are and even a little piss ant like me can help motivate this forward.

Should have used the AI thing... people are just dying for something to listen to that "isn't human". (cringe)

Quote from: stwenhao on May 21, 2025, 03:44:16 AM

Seriously: it is quite obvious, who created each testnet, and why it was made. You can read posts, made by testnet creators, and follow their way of thinking. They definitely had some goals. And note that when testnet1 or testnet2 was created, there was no regtest, no signet, and people just experimented in different ways, to test some things.

I'm allowed to go against someones intentions/goals if I don't think they are logical or based in reality. It's testing... it's a testnet work.

By not conforming to someone's way of thinking, I enable devs to get Testnet coins easily to do cool things. StWenhao's signature with his "Testnet puzzle" on the blockchain are coins from AltQuick's exchange... (both ways, he returned the extra lol.). I also have a way for people to get free coins if dust is enough... but for bigger folks, that'd be a huge pain in the ass and a few worthless altcoins burned saves tons of time testing closer to Bitcoin, which has value.

Also, food for thought, a website can name anything anything. I could list Testnet 5 as "Testnet Premine" and break away from the numbering system all together. Then it is up to the people that use it to establish the norm. (I see this stupid debate on changing Bitcoin in that regard, that is just a good example of what a service can do to help change the masses lingo.)

A great example of a name can be anything is: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Comparison_of_cryptocurrencies "Craigcoin" for BSV *LOL* Tongue

Quote from: stwenhao on May 21, 2025, 03:44:16 AM

If a dummy test network, made by Bitcoin developers just to test things, is worth more than serious altcoins, with serious developers, who want to make their coins valuable, and promote them everywhere, then it sounds very bullish for BTC, and in that case, altcoins won't have much chances to replace BTC in the future.

^^^^^ I hypothesize this as well. It's could be extremely easy, I think.

Quote from: stwenhao on May 21, 2025, 03:44:16 AM

new testnets should be much more buggy

More bugs = more gamesmanship. Potentially.

As seen in v3 and v4 with "bugs" or funky rules.

Quote from: gmaxwell on May 21, 2025, 01:59:13 AM

As I said about testnet2 after testnet1:
2011-07-11 21:40:20|Blitzboom|someday, someone will make a TNC/BTC exchange 2011-07-11 21:41:29|gmaxwell|Once people start trading testnet coins for real value the developers will break the testnet chain again. 2011-07-11 21:41:49|gmaxwell|This was done before, and I expect it will keep happening, otherwise testnet stops being useful for testing if its hard to get coins. 2011-07-11 21:42:40|gmaxwell|It's testnet. Run a fork of the old version if you don't like it. 2011-07-11 21:45:05|gmaxwell|besides, the value is a joke regardless. I could remine all of testnet in a few days if I wanted to blow a bunch of btc breaking it. 2011-07-11 21:46:28|gmaxwell|It's in our best interest that testing be as cheap as possible, thats why its testnet.

(conversation went on to propose resetting it again, resetting it with every release, etc. eventually Matt proposed the 20 minute difficulty 1 rule)

or about testnet3 after testnet2:
2012-12-14 17:28:13|MC1984|all i can surmise from this is that testcoins are worthless lol 2012-12-14 17:28:31|gmaxwell| "balance" : 618774.51859299, 2012-12-14 17:28:36|slush1|MC1984: yes, I had 100k of them, still 70k remains 2012-12-14 17:28:42|slush1|if you want some more, just ask :-D 2012-12-14 17:29:34|MC1984|mfw some retard starts a testcoin exchange and lots of other retards jump on and suddenly im part of the 1% 2012-12-14 17:30:47|gmaxwell|MC1984: that problem was solved before by resetting testnet when people started demanding real amounts for them. 2012-12-14 17:31:20|MC1984|oh it did happen lol

or
2013-08-24 13:49:10|rodarmor|Question for someone smarter than I: Would it be helpful or harmful to development and testing if I were to create an app or game that integrated testnet coins and testnet chain transactions? I was thinking about a simple gambling game, or a strategy game that used testnet coins as an internal currency. 2013-08-24 13:49:31|gmaxwell|rodarmor: have a blast, make more testnet transactions. 2013-08-24 13:49:38|Luke-Jr|rodarmor: IMO it might help, simply because it gives testnet more activity 2013-08-24 13:49:47|Luke-Jr|certainly shouldn't hurt 2013-08-24 13:49:49|rodarmor|That's what I was thinking. 2013-08-24 13:50:05|gmaxwell|rodarmor: also if your stuff gets more people using testnet, I will buy you your choice of beverage. 2013-08-24 13:50:23|rodarmor|Although, haven't there been problems in the past when testnet coins somehow gained value and the whole thing had to be reset? 2013-08-24 13:50:34|gmaxwell|rodarmor: yea not really a problem now I think. 2013-08-24 13:50:37|rodarmor|gmaxwell: thanks, I will definitely call that in if this comes of anything 2013-08-24 13:50:46|gmaxwell|and if it needs to be reset again we can of course. 2013-08-24 13:51:10|gmaxwell|But I also own like a million testnet btc, so I suspect I can just dump coins to suppress any gain in value. 2013-08-24 13:51:11|petertodd|rodarmor: Worst comes to worst we'll just add a infinite money generator to testnet, and as gmaxwell said it can be reset on a dime.

Quote from: gmaxwell on May 09, 2025, 11:43:19 PM

Quote from: BayAreaCoins on May 09, 2025, 04:28:39 AM

You are either ignorant or a liar, and I think both are unacceptable for a person in your position.

And what "position" is that?

Quick eye roll at your quote the other day and then back to leaning into you.

You didn't actually reset anything, though did you? There is a *huge* difference in recreating something and resetting something... I think the verbiage "reset" is used to inspire false fear... Unless you want to burn a few million dollars to make a point on a worthless network. Which has never been done that I'm aware of. It'd be cool af. That would probably fuck a day or two up for me tbh, but it would be cool to see. Tongue

You made a new shitcoin everytime. There has never been a "reset". Script kiddie shit.

Quote

There have been three generations of testnet. Testnet2 was just the first testnet reset with a different genesis block, because people were starting to trade testnet coins for real money. Testnet3 is the current test network. It was introduced with the 0.7 release, introduced a third genesis block, a new rule to avoid the "difficulty was too high, is now too low, and transactions take too long to verify" problem, and contains blocks with edge-case transactions designed to test implementation compatibility.

It was abandoned and in the past, that was enough, but running those old version will become problematic if we are launching a new Testnet every week. You even were apart of introducing a stupid rule that was easily gameable... kinda shows how your thinking can result in a problematic reality, I'm sure that stings a bit.

I suspect if what you suspect is true about faster restarts, there will be more trade volume because users will need to bridge those coins while they can to the network of whatever system they are testing. Plus services are going to get really annoyed having to update weekly for something that has basically no value and is only hurting your lil feelers. ($3000 right now is what you'd get for draining the book, the engineering time updating across the network has got to FAR exceed that network upgrade-wise... if 200 companies spend 2 hours each, that's 400 man hours flushed down the drain.)

Quote from: gmaxwell on May 21, 2025, 01:59:13 AM

2013-08-24 13:51:10|gmaxwell|But I also own like a million testnet btc, so I suspect I can just dump coins to suppress any gain in value.
2013-08-24 13:51:11|petertodd|rodarmor: Worst comes to worst we'll just add a infinite money generator to testnet, and as gmaxwell said it can be reset on a dime.
[/tt]

You dirty testnet stackers (rules for thee not for me)... have you dumped any coins to help prevent them from gaining value? You're welcome to use my website with confidence that I will be a professional and not bother you. Drain the bid and take those Bitcoins. Do what you said you would do.

You hoarding Testnet hurt some devs/faucets and made coins more scarce. Part of why v4 was pushed was because v3 devs ran out of coins, but you have over a MILLION. You've got to be kidding me dude!!! LOL You don't see a problem with you eating up 1/21 of the supply for nothing? Then you have the audacity to say they are scarce and propose a premine? (Testnet v4 was premined before being merged into Bitcoin Core... I've also given you the miners contact info with ~1 million v4 to assist you in seeing your goal of Testnet being "worthless". Still no action on your part. Roll Eyes

)

It can be "reset" (abandoned) on a dime, but so can we. Lets test it. Launch tomorrow? Maybe that will fix all your concerns magically, like Saint said, who knows! (lul). Cash App and others can't even use v4, so they remain on v3... lol...

I didn't think "infinite coins" worked with the rules? That'd be cool though, DOGE does that and free mining for the LTC crowd, and somehow manages to still be traded with Bitcoin for 10+ years! I had 100,000,000 DOGE at one point and my partner / friends contributed code to DOGE early on... it has a fond spot in my heart, I suppose if Testnet hits zero Bitcoin satoshi, we "could" make a TBTC/DOGE market and that would add a ton of room down.

Quote from: Bob Burnett on the mailing list 5-20-2025

A second learning I will share from my PC development days was that predicting usages and user behavior is next to impossible. The safest and most accommodating path is to give as much user optionality/configurability as possible. My high-level recommendation is to work on paths that give users more choice not less.

This is multiplied 100x in Bitcoin Testnet for some reason... it blows my mind daily how people use it when you give them a chance. (esp Testnet 3 still being used by people/transactions/blockspace more than v4 lol! Keep in mind that Citrea is using their "spammy methods" on v4 as well, rofl, and v3 is still more heavily used. LoL *dead* )

Quote from: Adude101 on Twitter in 2023

I'm transgender and have recently started transitioning. From now on, I'll be going by Ava with she/her pronouns. Of course you can still call me achow.

No wonder v4 was so sloppy... This is the guy who pushed it out with the 28.0 release with the new and improved (lol) v4 Testnet.

If a person is confused about if they are a boy or a girl, I would think all of this would be REALLY confusing and frustrating.

I'm sure we could show fact after fact, and someone this disillusioned would still think they are a woman... reality < how they "feel". You'll never be a she/her and Testnet will never not have value to someone. Tough pills to swallow, and I'll pray for you.

Don't chop off y'alls peepee or shave your neck beards just yet fellas. Ride this one out with me, gaybois.

We got this.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]