Quote from: LGD2Business on Today at 12:21:47 PM

Quote from: Tmoonz on Today at 12:15:40 PM

Apparently it seems that you don't comprehend the indepth of my post or maybe you are among those that encourages the mindset of saying that until I have a strong source of income I will not invest in Bitcoin when all we needed to figure out is only if we have a discretionary income to invest, my assertion was that even those with an irregular income flow can invest in to Bitcoin right away with the DCA strategy rather than waiting for a dip that may or may not happen provided that there is an availability of a discretionary income at some point in their life, for those with an irregular income source at any point they discover that they don't have a discretionary income to invest they can pause their investment and continue whenever they have. Secondly, It is old fashioned to save money before buying Bitcoin perhaps you are not buying a whole bitcon but a fraction with the dca strategy.

I guess you can't understand what is written, or you are in the mode of responding without reading carefully. I suggest you reread the first message you responded to. People can't invest without a source of income. Unless you have found a way to create money out of thin air, your suggestion is invalid. How do you think a person with no income can buy Bitcoin? Saving money means putting money aside for investment, there is no timeline stated here. You can buy Bitcoin as soon as you have money to spare. The fact that you have to explain something so simple gives the impression that you are a person who can't understand what you read but only writes to give the answer you have in mind.

You guys seem to be arguing for the sake of argument, even though some good points are brought up in your posts.

You have to have discretionary income to invest into bitcoin, yet you do not need a steady income to invest into bitcoin.

Of course, if you have irregular income, then you are going to be challenged to figure out from where your next income will come, and perhaps if you do not have regular income, then you have to hold more cash in reserves in order to be sure that you have enough for expenses, and if you run out of savings then you will be stuck having to cash out of some or all of your bitcoin at a time that is not of your own choosing...

It tends to not be a good idea to either continue to invest into bitcoin from savings or to take out a loan to invest into bitcoin, unless you have some assurance of income to be able to replace the savings or to service the loan. Of course, excess savings can be used to invest into bitcoin, but at some point, there seems to be a need to have an income if the savings might become depleted.. and so we may well presume that most people are investing from various income that they have that likely comes from work, even though there could be guys who have passive sources of income too, and who are able to invest into bitcoin from their passive sources of income.

Quote from: LGD2Business on Today at 12:52:51 PM

Quote from: Sticky Bomb on Today at 12:45:35 PM

From what I can see and understand, you are the one misunderstanding Tmoonz, he's coming from an angle of irregular cashflow and their ability to continue accumulating BTC regardless of the randomness of their income availability as long as they have discretionary income from their income at any intervals it becomes available and he is not in any way saying that those that do not have a sourceof income should buy bitcoin.

It is safe to tell you that not everyone that has a source of income would have discretionary income after removing expenses budget and for some people, the funds they make is not even enough to take care of their expenses, so your ability to invest into bitcoin is largely dependent on the availability of discretionary income.

He was the one who quoted and responded to my message, but what he said had nothing to do with what I said. You should go back to the beginning of the discussion. He says for someone with no income to invest, but he doesn't say where the money will come from. If you look at what I said at the beginning, I said that people should buy Bitcoin with any money they don't need, and they shouldn't wait to invest. Are you against that? Someone who doesn't have a regular income can't do that because they don't know when they need that money and they might have to sell it when they don't want to, that may cost them to lose more money. I think that's clear enough.

You might be correct that there could be cases in which a guy believes that he has enough income or savings to be able to invest, yet he does not have enough confidence in terms of from where his next income is going to come, so he may well be better off to not invest until he has more confidence in regards to the next of his income. so in that regard, you and Tmoonz seem to be saying similar things in regards to ONLY being able to invest from within discretionary income, yet Tmoonz also seems to be saying that a guy does not need to have steady income prior to being able to invest into bitcoin, which seem to be a bit of your contention (LGD2Business).

You (LGD2Business) seem to be saying that the guy already needs to know that he has a future income in order to invest into bitcoin, since he might need the money later. You guys are not really that far apart, and I tend to agree with Tmoonz in the sense that you seem to be overly focused on the need to know your income sources in advance, and from my point of view, there are a lot of guys who do not have that much clarity in their future source incomes, they just do their best to continue to find work, and their work may well be sporadic rather than regular, yet they still might be able to invest into bitcoin with part of the income that they do receive, even if they have uncertainties regarding their future income.

I do also think that any guys who have a lot of uncertainty in their income, they are likely going to keep higher amounts of cash cushion, and I doubt that any of us recommends investing into bitcoin without any back up funds, since if a guy invests into bitcoin without back up funds, then the bitcoin investment is serving as back up funds, which tends to be too risky of a place to be... My own attempt to balance these kinds of poor person dilemmas is to suggest that poor people should be striving to build their backup funds at the same time as building up their bitcoin investment, so surely it could take a year or more in which their back up funds and their bitcoin investment had received a whole 3 months worth of expenses invested into them.. and so there might not be much of any confidence to invest aggressively into bitcoin until having at least 3 months worth of expenses as back up funds available..

yet surely, each person has to figure out their balance, and hopefully they can figure out ways to build their bitcoin and their emergency fund and to get to a position that they are able to invest into bitcoin even more aggressively, yet if they continue to have sporadic income and sporadic work as they are investing into bitcoin, then surely they might have troubles continuing to build their bitcoin investment if they are not able to get out of that irregular income situation, and you are correct LGD2Business that they may well need to be striving to get some more steady income sources in order to be successful with their bitcoin investment, even though they do not need to have steady income sources in order to get started investing into bitcoin and striving to improve their financial and/or psychological situation by building up their bitcoin holdings and other building up of cashflow management systems and practices.

I think that many guys will rightfully argue with other forum members when it seems that other members are suggesting obstacles prior to their ability to invest into bitcoin, and many of us realize that matters do not have to be perfect in order to for a guy to get started investing into bitcoin, yet surely if anyone is going to continue to be able to invest into bitcoin, they may well have to work out various areas of their finances and/or psychology that have faults that may well end up interfering with their abilities to continue to invest into bitcoin for 4-10 years or longer.

Quote from: LGD2Business on Today at 01:23:06 PM

Quote from: Tmoonz on Today at 01:09:21 PM

It is no longer new how people read others post and misunderstood or misinterpret it, your obsession or I would rather say your conception about my post is totally wrong perhaps I never made mentioned of how people can invest without source of income rather you failed to understand that there is different between not having an income source and an having irregular source or sources of income and that's exactly where you are having problems with my post, in summary I was of the opinion that even though with irregular source or sources of income can still invest in Bitcoin which of course they don't also have to wait for a dip before making their purchases, I was not talking about anything relating to investing without a source of income as you said I did.

In this case we are back to square one. People without a regular income can't allocate money for investment. I guess this concept of "regular income" has a different meaning for you.

You do need discretionary income to invest into bitcoin, yet you do not need a "regular income" to invest into bitcoin, and if you (LGD2Business) keep insisting that guys have to have a regular income to invest into bitcoin, you are going to continue to receive push back, since you seem to be making higher than necessary requirements to invest into bitcoin.. and maybe you are not doing it on purpose, but it seems that you are attempting to described bitcoin investing in more difficult and complicated ways than it needs to be described.

Of course, the more income that a person has, then the more options he is going to have, yet we also know that bitcoin can be quite empowering for quite poor people who generally would not be able to invest, since bitcoin is available to anyone and everyone as long as they have some discretionary income and even if they are only able to invest into bitcoin irratically, they may still be better off investing into bitcoin rather than not investing into bitcoin, even if their income situation is not very good.

Quote from: LGD2Business on Today at 01:23:06 PM

Maybe where you learned English, they taught it in a different way. It could be a salaried job or some other source of income. It's clearly meant as "the money one earns to live on". If you invest with the money you have to live on, you will have to break your investment when you need that money. This is undesirable.

Exactly. You are describing the need for a guy to have discretionary income, so his income has to be higher than his expenses, and surely people without very much discretionary income and those who do not have back up funds are going to be more prone to make mistakes as compared to guys who have some kind of a financial cushion. Accordingly, guys who have smaller levels of discretionary income and even more infrequent discretionary income, are likely going to need to be more organized in their cashflow management skills and practices, as compared with guys who have higher levels of discretionary income.. yet even the guys with low levels of discretionary income are not precluded from investing into bitcoin, yet if they really want to prosper in bitcoin, they have to make sure that they do not invest into bitcoin beyond their discretionary income.. which is not easy if they do not have very much discretionary income...

Maybe some poor folks only have around $10 per week of discretionary income, so they might have troubles figuring out if they should invest into bitcoin or just keep it in cash for a few weeks and then to reassess the extent to which they are comfortable to use what discretionary income that they have for investing in bitcoin as compared with other places they could use that money.

Quote from: LGD2Business on Today at 01:23:06 PM

Investing is done with spare money, not with money that you use to meet your basic needs.
The fact that I have to explain something so obvious over and over again makes me feel like I'm being trolled, so I'll leave it at that. For those who still don't get it, there's nothing I can do. I would appreciate it if you don't make any more wrong quotes.

I doubt that you are explaining anything that guys here don't already know, even if sometimes they might make mistakes in the ways that they describe discretionary income. .including yourself LGD2Business.. for some reason, you seem to think that there is a need to have a regular income in order to have discretionary income, which to me (and probably to others here, too), it seems that you are placing the requirements too high, since having discretionary income does not require having regular income.. Having discretionary income is merely having some money left over after accounting for expenses, and sure if the guy mistakenly uses income for expenses to invest into bitcoin, and he thought that the money was discretionary income and instead it was money that he needed for expenses, then surely that guy is going to have to pay for his mistake.. so it surely is better to not make mistakes, but there isn't any need for a regular income in order to assure that money being used to invest into bitcoin is not needed for expenses.

Quote from: Proty on Today at 06:58:29 PM

Quote from: LGD2Business on Today at 12:21:47 PM

Quote from: Tmoonz on Today at 12:15:40 PM

Apparently it seems that you don't comprehend the indepth of my post or maybe you are among those that encourages the mindset of saying that until I have a strong source of income I will not invest in Bitcoin when all we needed to figure out is only if we have a discretionary income to invest, my assertion was that even those with an irregular income flow can invest in to Bitcoin right away with the DCA strategy rather than waiting for a dip that may or may not happen provided that there is an availability of a discretionary income at some point in their life, for those with an irregular income source at any point they discover that they don't have a discretionary income to invest they can pause their investment and continue whenever they have. Secondly, It is old fashioned to save money before buying Bitcoin perhaps you are not buying a whole bitcon but a fraction with the dca strategy.

I guess you can't understand what is written, or you are in the mode of responding without reading carefully. I suggest you reread the first message you responded to. People can't invest without a source of income. Unless you have found a way to create money out of thin air, your suggestion is invalid. How do you think a person with no income can buy Bitcoin? Saving money means putting money aside for investment, there is no timeline stated here. You can buy Bitcoin as soon as you have money to spare. The fact that you have to explain something so simple gives the impression that you are a person who can't understand what you read but only writes to give the answer you have in mind.

It is practically impossible for anyone to start any form of investment be it bitcoin investment or any form of investment without a source of income.infact not just source of income the person should have a good cash flow inorder to be able to sustain the investment since they are venturing into gambling with bitcoin which doesn't require long term goals

Having a source of income is not even a guarantee that one can start accumulating bitcoin because your income should be able to sort out your daily expenses and family needs them if there is any disposable income that is ones discretion,this is what should be invest in bitcoin in other to have a smooth and successful investment .

One thing is having a smooth and successful bitcoin investment (which is sort of a medium to long term perspective of a variety of acts), and another thing is to get started investing into bitcoin which only takes one act to figure out if the person investing has discretionary income (which is extra money from their income after accounting for their expenses). If a person has discretionary income, then he can get started, whether it is $10 to $100 or even determining each week if they have $10 to $100 extra that they can put into bitcoin.

So getting started investing into bitcoin is one thing, and maintaining the bitcoin investment is another thing that also likely requires cashflow management and ongoing determinations that discretionary money is available an perhaps even back up funds are getting built and/or maintained along side of the building and maintaining of the bitcoin investment.

Surely, if someone starts investing into bitcoin, yet they are not sure about their future income and/or expenses, then they may well have to make efforts to try to increase their income and/or to decrease their expenses, yet some expenses are necessary in order to increase income and sometimes there are challenges in regards to either increase income in the short term or even to spend money on gaining skills or education, which may well contribute towards being able to get higher paying jobs in the future.