Quote from: Futurexxx on June 07, 2025, 08:18:32 AM

Quote from: Sonia_123 on June 07, 2025, 05:28:00 AM

To diversify is also important but it depends on the way at which the diversification is taking place, some persons just have the mentality of diversify because they see others doing it without checking on themselves if they are fit to diversify, remember when you diversify you are protecting your initial investment from collapsing in future, the way you manage your investment matters a lot
As a new Bitcoin investor it is a wrong idea to reason diversification at your early stage of accumulation until you have gotten to a certain stage which you feel you can diversify, but if you are struggling to accumulate your portfolio, you are not doing well financially, it is adviceable not to diversify but keep accumulating until you can afford diversifying so that you don't end up losing both your already existing investment and your need investment.

Truly diversification is never a bad thing, it's a great idea because you are trying to not just protect your asset but you are trying to increase it from other source, the major problem about diversification is how is being done, that's where the problem lies.

Yes there are times when diversification is completely retarded (so I would say that in those situations, diversification is a bad thing in certain situations). And, diversification tends to be something to protect your assets once they are grown rather than trying to grow your assets.. Diversification does not make much sense as a reason to "grow your assets" unless you have the mindset of a trader, a gambler or someone who does not know what the fuck they are doing, so therefore you diversify in order to hedge your bets because you do not have confidence in your investment (in the topic of this thread, bitcoin).

Quote from: Futurexxx on June 07, 2025, 08:18:32 AM

You can't just start buying alt or meme coin and call that diversification away from Bitcoin, that's financial suicide, because those crypto can't replace Bitcoin,

Yes, diversifying into shitcoins is retarded, even though very smart people might come to a conclusion that it is good to diversify beyond bitcoin because they do not really know how bitcoin differs from shitcoins.

Quote from: Futurexxx on June 07, 2025, 08:18:32 AM

but if you are diversifying into real estate or gold it sounds logical,

Sure, gold and/or real estate are better investments than shitcoins, but it does not mean that it is a good idea to fuck around with them until perhaps at such point that a person might have had built up his wealth.

Sure, there might be some folks who come to bitcoin and they are already involved in real estate, gold, other commodities, stocks, bonds, and perhaps some other categories of investments, so they might have difficulties reallocating out of those investments, so they might even prefer to stay in those other investments and just add to their investment portfolio with bitcoin... Someone who might already be starting out with various other investments might choose to stay with those other investments or perhaps the more logical choice would be to little by little sell out of their other inferior investments and put that value into bitcoin, yet even if they reallocate out of various non-bitcoin investments and put that value into bitcoin, they might purposefully choose to engage in such reallocation in a systematic way.

Quote from: Futurexxx on June 07, 2025, 08:18:32 AM

not alt or meme that falls more than they rise.
Furthermore, before diversifying into other reliable asset like gold, land and real estate you need to be stable in your Bitcoin investment first before thinking of other asset because too much distraction might limit the growth of any of them.

You likely have the right ideas in regards to these points, since their is distraction (or dilution) of time, energy and/or value that might be better focused on building up bitcoin and cash first, before expanding out, and even with gold, land and/or real estate, there are a lot of problems with those as investments as compared with bitcoin, so even if a person does choose to keep some of those investments, then he might want to figure out ways to limit his exposure to those inferior investments.

I frequently suggest that guys should not keep any more than 10% of the size of their bitcoin investment into gold, yet surely there are a lot of guys who are distracted by that shiny rock and wrongly believe that it is even close to as valuable as bitcoin, both in terms of sound money attributes and in terms of future value.. and bitcoin is going to continue to eat gold's lunch both in terms of actual fundamentals but also in terms of bitcoin having an unfair advantage of being in its earliest of adoption phases.. Similar arguments can be made regarding the inferior position of land and/or real estate as compared with bitcoin, so hopefully, we won't be wasting too much time, energy and/or money trying to act as if land and/or real estate is even close to as valuable as bitcoin.

Quote from: Derekfunds on June 07, 2025, 09:24:45 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on June 06, 2025, 11:28:00 PM

Investors are not focused on profits, and likely they presume profits, yet if they are holding an investment for 10-15 years or longer, before they start to sustainably withdraw from it, then sure, they likely are presuming that they would be in profits by the time they are starting to sustainably withdraw from their BTC stash.

Before I use to feel same way that investor focuses on profit but your reply has made me have a second thought that if Investor focuses on profit then there is no much or no difference between them and traders because traders focuses on profit whether immediate or later time. Moreover, any investor who focuses on profit will definitely derail along the line because sometimes the market can not give them what they expect. Yes the main aim of every Bitcoin investor is to make profit but not to focus on it but rather invest regardless and hoping for a better tomorrow.

Quote from: JayJuanGee on June 06, 2025, 11:28:00 PM

And, so if they are withdrawing from their bitcoin stash at a rate of 4% per year or 10% per year or some variation of that, they are likely just using their bitcoin as a form of side income, and the value of their bitcoin stash may well be gaining in value faster than their withdrawal rate, which it part of the reason that their withdrawal systems woudl be considered as being "sustainable" and perhaps able to perform perpetually, whether they are living 20 years longer, 50 years longer or some other period of time that they are withdrawing from the bitcoin at their calculated sustainable rate of withdrawal.

You are right, it is absolutely a side income hustle and it is somehow a nice strategy but come to think of it, the 4% those investors are withdrawing per annum, what are exactly are they using it for? Because it is better to be investing and holding than to invest and be taking some cent out as fiat, anyways 4% is somehow okay but 10% is kinda big to be removing per year as an investor that haven't gotten to an overaccumulation stage.

A 4% withdrawal rate is typically discussed for folks who want to sustainably withdraw from their investments and to live off of their investments, and it is standardly used in finance accross various acceptable standards.. Of course, with any determined withdrawal rate, in order for it to be sustainable, the underlying asset(s) need to appreciate on average at a higher rate than the withdrawal rate, otherwise the withdrawal rate is not sustainable.

I personally believe that there are ways to create formulas to withdraw bitcoin at a 10% withdrawal rate, using the 200-WMA as a way to valuate your BTC holdings and then withdrawing within systems that are cognizant of the BTC spot price compared with the 200-WMA. I describe a lot of those kinds of ideas in my thread and with the guidelines of a withdrawal tool... (even though I know that there are aspects of my thread and also aspects of the withdrawal tool that I should update), yet of course, we should keep in mind that if anyone is not sure if his withdrawal rate is sustainable, it is better to error on the side of a more conservative withdrawal rate rather than withdrawing too much too soon and overly depleting his BTC holdings.

Quote from: Derekfunds on June 07, 2025, 09:24:45 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on June 06, 2025, 11:28:00 PM

Many of us recognize and appreciate bitcoin as amongst the best of investments currently available (if not the best investment currently available).

Yea, so far I think Bitcoin is the best investment as it stance and we can see how countries, institutions, Government etc are investing into Bitcoin because of the potential they see in Bitcoin in years coming.

Part of the problem for regular people is that they do not recognize and/or appreciate that governments, institutions and even status quo rich folks are going to end up front running them and causing the BTC price to go up higher and higher and higher, so many normies are going to end up having to buy bitcoin at higher prices later down the road , so anyone who is both informed about bitocin and also acting upon such information to build up their bitcoin holdings, are going to be advantaged over the overwhelming majority of normies who have hardly no fucking clue in regards to what is happening and the better position they would get themselves in to figure out and deploy some kind of a bitcoin accumulation strategy. Many normies might have had heard the word bitcoin and assume that they know what it is, but they have hardly any clue and they should both research into it and also put a bitcoin accumulation strategy into practice.. so that they will have more options in the future.

Quote from: Jostern on June 07, 2025, 11:42:07 AM

Quote from: Futurexxx on June 07, 2025, 08:18:32 AM

[edited out]

Before I usually find it difficult to diversify at some point, because I usually think about the circumstances involved in managing different things and different situations, My Bitcoin journey in a little while I must say is a revelation to me, because at some point I’ve been very active with some other business before coming into Bitcoin and that was a cornerstone to building my Bitcoin portfolio which I must say there have been grate deal to management my bitcoin investment, there have been some folks who have been in Bitcoin in a short time but have been able to accumulate enough bitcoin and they have been concentrating only on bitcoin that is to say that some people Bitcoin is there way of diversification which have been a major part of there success.

You seem to be thinking about diversification in terms of wanting to get involved in shitcoins, and that kind of gambling mentality is not correct.

Diversification is not a means to try to make more money, even though traders, gamblers and shitcoiners will frequently think about diversification in those kinds of ways.

Quote from: Jostern on June 07, 2025, 11:42:07 AM

Perhaps at some point I want to diversify I can think about diversification into Some properties, most likely a real estate investment and also investing in gold as well which I think it’s a grate assets as well and some diamonds and some stocks as well, and I can decide to go into some businesses. But i wouldn’t appreciate diversifying into shitcoins or any altcoin which I know that there is no guaranteed foundation for altcoin which depends on Bitcoin to thrive why do I want to invest in that, that would be a catastrophe.

Even if you are not considering diversifying into shitcoins, you still sound distracted, and of the belief that you are diversifying in order to try to make more money because you don't have confidence in bitcoin as your investment.

In the end, you can do what you like, including diluting your time, energy and value into assets that are likely inferior to bitcoin rather than focusing on building your bitcoin and cash holdings first.