Quote from: Tungbulu on June 13, 2025, 08:00:44 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on June 13, 2025, 06:34:28 AM

I think that you are coming to the wrong conclusion Bluedrem, and that the better course of action is to get the fuck stared rather than studying the matter, and surely, one of the problems of poor people is that they fail/refuse to create and to maintain emergency funds, and so rich people have the advantage of having all kinds of resources and emergency funds to fall back upon if they fuck up, yet poor people get shaken out of their BTC investment when the fail/refuse to make sure that they are more organized than the rich person in order to protect themselves.

You do not need to study the bitcoin matter and/or the cashflow management matter in order to get started investing into bitcoin sooner rather than later (as long as you have a discretionary income) and stop procrastinating whether you are a rich person, poor person or some other category of person who happens to not have enough BTC yet has a discretionary income, which is about 99% of the world's population does not have enough or any bitcoin, currently.

You're absolutely correct, overthinking can indeed potentially lead to paralysis. The best way to get started is to take the first step, even if those steps are very small, at least it's better than waiting for a perfect time that may likely not even come. Bitcoin accumulation and building an emergency fund can actually be done simultaneously, I actually created a topic on how this could be achieved.

I did a quick glance at it, and I bookmarked the thread so that I can read it and subscribe to it.

Quote from: Tungbulu on June 13, 2025, 08:00:44 AM

Having a solid financial backup or safety net can indeed provide peace of mind and also reduce stress too, it allows you to think straight and take more calculated decisions and risks with your investment.
I couldn't agree more with you point about not having to first study extensively before getting started in Bitcoin investment, and this is in fact one of the biggest misconceptions that majority (who plan to get started) often have about Bitcoin investment. It is very possible and even advisable for people to invest in Bitcoin with their discretionary income, regardless of their financial status. Most of the times, the most important step in everyone's journey is that first step of getting started first, and every other thing can actually fall in place later on. By taking action and commit themselves to consistent accumulation, investors as they proceed and advance, can learn and also adapt to the situation.

It's important to note that many people who are successful Bitcoin investors today didn't wait till they gain all the knowledge about investment first before getting started, financial literacy and experience can actually be developed overtime. Starting small and staying consistent can really help in building one's knowledge and confidence as they advance further.

Each of us come to bitcoin at different levels of knowledge and experience, and frequently several of us suggest that all that is needed is discretionary income and the enough basic math and common sense skills to make sure that you really do have discretionary income and you are not mistaken, since whether you get started $10 per week, $100 per week or some other amount, you should hopefully be able to recognize some value in recognizing limitations in your knowledge if you are coming to bitcoin as a new investment - or maybe you had already been studying bitcoin, so you know some things about bitcoin, yet you may also recognize that even just sourcing your coins and starting to make your weekly buys might require some getting used to.. including figuring out how to plan your future buys, and whether to give yourself a weekly budget that involves both bitcoin investing and the building of an emergency fund or if maybe you already have some back up funds so you merely have to think about how your bitcoin investing is going to fit within your already practices, and like several of us repeat, it is not likely that any waiting needs to happen in order to get started unless you are not sure about from where you are going to source your initial coins and/or if you might feel that you have to explore your initial bitcoin sourcing options.

Quote from: Nheer on June 13, 2025, 08:45:00 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on June 13, 2025, 04:12:20 AM

[edited out]

On a second thought I think you're right, keeping emergency funds in our local currencies is the best practice but keeping your emergency funds in gold is not totally wrong if the volatility is reasonable and can actually hold it's value but it's still a decision that needs to be thought out carefully considering the fact that it is also volatile. It's wrong to not have any emergency funds at all to back up your investment, if your Bitcoin is your emergency fund then your investment plan will definitely be affected along the way and you end up being stressed financially.

It is not just the volatility, but the liquidity too... and the more that someone's wealth grows, they might choose to have larger and larger amount of various back up funds, yet at the same time, if many of us are prioritizing our bitcoin, since we recognize the value in bitcoin, then we likely would try to make sure that the bitcoin is not only being built but it is being protected.. and so cash as an emergency fund seems way more practical based on its level of liquidity, yet the more cash that we hold, including if we are getting beyond 2-3 months, we may well start to feel that out cash is really not working for us and it may even be losing value fairly rapidly so we keep having to add to it, even after we might have had considered that we had established it.. And, surely many poor people want to not only have their money working for them, but also that it is not losing value as fast as they are able to add to it, which causes them to consider that they might not be making any progress, which tends to be the case for many years in the earliest years of investing, it can really seem that it is taking a while to build up everything such as both the bitcoin investment and the various backup funds and have good systems in place.

And surely some folks might have back up funds in various locations including if their cashflow management systems and practices are fairly strong, they might have various forms of cash and assets that are serving as back up funds, so then maybe gold just happens to be one of those - and there can be a trade off between how volatile it might be and how liquid it might be, and so if there are potential issues with it both in terms of volatility and in terms of ease of liquidating it, then that can contribute towards decision in regards to how much of that could be relied upon when push comes to shove, if there was a need to use it and if it were next on the priority perhaps after local cash had been spent and then perhaps foreign cash had been spent (to the extent any money was being kept in dollars as opposed to local cash).

Then surely as various forms of cash are being spent, there could be concerns that something like the gold withdrawals need to start to be processed, perhaps several weeks or even a month or so before the other cash or assets might be spent.. and sure in the meantime there could be attempts to resolve the emergency by getting another source of income and/or cutting expenses, yet if those kinds of steps have already been taken and the emergency is ongoing, then perhaps there could be various levels of cash and/or assets that are used before the bitcoin would end up getting touched... and surely it would be worse to get shaken out of some or all of your bitcoin if you happen to be early in your bitcoin journey, such as in the first cycle (or your first 4 years) versus if you might have had been able to establish a larger stash in which you might end up ONLY having to sell 5% to 15% of your stash and then you are able to get back on your feet and resume your BTC accumulation practices.

Quote from: Nheer on June 13, 2025, 08:45:00 AM

Quote from: Bluedrem on June 13, 2025, 05:43:39 AM

We often do a lot of work without preplanning, we do it without thinking about what will happen 2/3/4 weeks, months, years after doing the work? We work without thinking about what can happen which later makes us face difficult problems.
Most of the time we invest our emergency fund in the wrong place due to which we have to pay later.

We do not understand which type of collection should be invested in which sector.

I think everyone should do a lot of study on this before investing.

Emergency funds are really meant to be a safety net for unexpected expenses or financial emergencies. They're not supposed to be invested or used for generating returns. We should keep them separate from our investments that way we can ensure that we have a backup plan in place, without having to dip into our investments and disrupt our long-term plans. That way we can have peace of mind knowing that we're prepared for whatever life throws our way.

No much studying is needed for Bitcoin investment, once we understand how to manage and set up our wallet and safe guard it then we are good to invest when we have discretionary income and emergency funds all sorted.

Since each of us is free to figure out our various boundaries, we might not realize that we engaged in some actions that were overly risky until it is too late, so if we had overly spent our various back up funds by buying bitcoin with them, and then we actually end up in some kind of a situation that we are running out of money and/or we do not have enough emergency funds to cover our expenses, then we may well regret our actions..and even if we might end up having to use our emergency funds for what seems like a non emergency because we did not have any money left, then we might end up bringing way more stress upon ourselves based on our previous conduct, and we had not realized the consequences of our earlier conduct until later down the road.

So yeah, no one is going to save us if we screw up, and we have to figure out how aggressive that we are going to be in our bitcoin investment and determine that we had not overdone it. So, if we screw up, then we end up having to pay the consequences and perhaps realizing that we had put ourselves in a worse position, yet still if we learn from our mistakes, we can sometimes still have some advantages, even from our screw ups...

Yet at the same time, for example, if a guy had spent 7 years accumulating bitcoin in a fairly aggressive way, such as 15% of his income, and then he makes some mistakes that causes him to have to spend some of his bitcoin, and maybe he would have had reached his fuck you status in 9-10 years, but then after he made his mistake, he ends up not being able to reach his fuck you status until 12 to 15 years, so then he may well feel bad that his mistake had cost him a delay of 3-5 years, but then even though he ends up learning a lesson, he still ended up having to pay a price for his mistakes. Those kinds of blunders do end up happening, sometimes... and sometimes we might not exactly know the extent of our mistake or the extent of the consequences of our mistake until several years later when we are able to measure the various "what ifs" and then we might be able to see that our mistake ended up having a decently BIG impact... but we can ONLY attempt to learn from our various mistakes and sometimes learn to either not make the same mistakes or to at least figure out ways to lessen the future impact of such mistakes if we do end up making similar mistakes in the future.

Quote from: Bluedrem on June 13, 2025, 09:43:47 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on June 13, 2025, 06:34:28 AM

Quote from: Bluedrem on June 13, 2025, 05:43:39 AM

We often do a lot of work without preplanning, we do it without thinking about what will happen 2/3/4 weeks, months, years after doing the work? We work without thinking about what can happen which later makes us face difficult problems.
Most of the time we invest our emergency fund in the wrong place due to which we have to pay later.
We do not understand which type of collection should be invested in which sector.

I think everyone should do a lot of study on this before investing.

I think that you are coming to the wrong conclusion Bluedrem, and that the better course of action is to get the fuck stared rather than studying the matter, and surely, one of the problems of poor people is that they fail/refuse to create and to maintain emergency funds, and so rich people have the advantage of having all kinds of resources and emergency funds to fall back upon if they fuck up, yet poor people get shaken out of their BTC investment when the fail/refuse to make sure that they are more organized than the rich person in order to protect themselves.

You do not need to study the bitcoin matter and/or the cashflow management matter in order to get started investing into bitcoin sooner rather than later (as long as you have a discretionary income) and stop procrastinating whether you are a rich person, poor person or some other category of person who happens to not have enough BTC yet has a discretionary income, which is about 99% of the world's population does not have enough or any bitcoin, currently.

Sorry, I may not have explained it that way. Every person wants to get rid of their poverty and live a good life, so they invest in different places at different times for good profit. I just wanted to say that they have to be more careful than others in their investments. Because they do not have the option to make mistakes.

I will agree with you that by definition, a poor person likely has fewer resources, so a poor person has to figure out ways to use the resources that he has more efficiently than the rich person in order to be able to even make similar levels of progress as the rich person, and he might have to spend years and years to make just a little bit of progress that the rich person was able to do in a matter of a few months, the poor person might have had needed to take a few years to make similar levels of progress, and like you said if the poor person screws up, then the negative ramifications might be worse for the poor person in terms of the set back as compared with if the rich person had made some similar kind of a screw up... so I am not disagreeing with you on those kinds of points.

Quote from: Bluedrem on June 13, 2025, 09:43:47 AM

So will they not invest? So can a poor person not become rich? I actually meant that a mistake of poor people can end their everything, so they should think at least a thousand times in any work whether what they are doing is right or not.

The can still learn as they go.. .so maybe they are taking actions and they are purposefully spending an extra 2-3 hours every day reading and planning, yet they can be studying while they are acting...and they also likely learn more by simultaneously figuring out various actions that they they can take while they are ongoingly learning and improving their systems and their practices..

Quote from: Bluedrem on June 13, 2025, 09:43:47 AM

Even if the rich make a mistake a few times, they have a chance to turn around, but a mistake of the poor makes them lose hope.

So will they not invest?

A poor person might lose progress, but if they are ongoingly planning and making alternative plans, then I don't see why they should necessarily lose hope, even though they may well recognize and appreciate that their path is more difficult that the rich persons path... and another thing that a poor person will do is figure out ways to increase his discretionary income, so maybe he is going to school while he is working, and it takes time before he might be able to get promoted into a higher paying job, yet if he just gives up then, that is on him... and sure, I recognize that there can be situations in which the obstacles are too high, and maybe the poor person has to figure that he is going to have to ONLY invest $35 per week rather than $70 per week, since he has to use the other $35 per week to engage in some kind of a necessary expenses that might relate to him either being able to increase his future income or perhaps to be able to cut some of his expenses in the future.

I am surely not proclaiming that the answers are easy, and each person is likely gong to have his own challenges in terms of having to figuring out the balances that apply to his own situation and the various ways forward, and some guys also end up making bad choices in terms of their own skills, training, self-improvement, and so they may well have a lot more opportunities to change their life trajectory when they are in their 20s, 30s or 40s as compared to where they are at in their 50s and 60s in which some of the potential paths have already closed by the time a person gets to certain places (or ages) in his life.

Quote from: Bluedrem on June 13, 2025, 09:43:47 AM

In my opinion, who should definitely invest in Bitcoin, and they should definitely invest to give their future generations a beautiful day.

Now let's see where they will invest. Their income is low, even if they invest, how will they keep it? They have to resort to hiring, in which case they can save a very small amount of the money they earn in Bitcoin every week, month or year. They can keep the remaining money as a life support and emergency fund.

Let's say that there are some guys in their early to mid-20s, and they might ONLY have around $100 per week of discretionary income, and their choice might be to invest in bitcoin and work in their current job that might not have too many promotion opportunities, or they might have some options to get some other job skills and perhaps move into work that pays better than their current work. These are not easy choices, and lifetimes of earning and/or opportunities could be at stake... and sometimes even during learning and training phases guys might work for little to no money, but they might end up landing jobs that pay them several times more than their current work and even give them more life satisfaction too... which many of us likely realize that one of the best ways to build and sustain a bitcoin investment is by building and maintaining various kinds of incomes and/or cutting expenses,

yet if a guy can end up getting paid more, then he might not have to cut as many expenses, either, he can live at a higher standard of living while he is building and maintaining his bitcoin investment...which also likely means that his bitcoin investment will grow faster.. but at the same time there are opportunity costs that involve bitcoin likely going to be 10x or more expensive 4- years from now as compared with today, so their are surely opportunity costs to defer any bitcoin investing, so there could be challenges in terms of how a person might be able to both invest in bitcoin and his job/life skills at the same time... and some guys solve some of those kinds of dilemmas by working on job skills that might relate to bitcoin and/or technology in one way or another.. which surely might end up being dream jobs if guys are able to earn bitcoin or work in something bitcoin related. yet we still cannot necessarily dismiss the value of earning fiat and then converting that fiat to bitcoin, which could well be a reasonable path forward too.

Quote from: Bluedrem on June 13, 2025, 09:43:47 AM

In this way, it will be seen that in the end, their small amount of saved Bitcoin will show the light to their next generation, they may be able to come out of poverty.

It is likely true that guys who are ONLY modestly able to accumulate bitcoin due to their poverty may well still be way better off for having had accumulated the bitcoin and to have had stocked (stored) their bitcoin in some kind of a way that they were sure that their amount was going to be a long term storage that was safe... which truly tended to be the case for guys who had been stacking away even relatively small amounts of BTC 10-13 years ago. So even though we likely realize that the upward slope of bitcoin price appreciation curve is not too likely going to be as great as it had been in the past 10-13 years, yet at the same time, several of us can recognize and appreciate that bitcoin remains amongst the best, if not the best place, for poor people to accumulate and store value that may well later be considered as a lot of money, whether it is 10-13 years from now or maybe 20-30 years or more from now..

At the same time, there are no guarantees, so guys have to make sure that they keep that in mind that loses can come through either execution risk or even various risks with the actual asset that might not be completely known.

Quote from: Tonimez on June 13, 2025, 04:47:57 PM

Quote from: Bluedrem on June 13, 2025, 01:35:58 PM

Quote from: Zackz5000 on June 13, 2025, 09:29:53 AM

Quote from: Bluedrem on June 13, 2025, 05:43:39 AM

I think everyone should do a lot of study on this before investing.

It has been emphasis here severally that you don't need to study much about bitcoin investment before getting started besides investing doesn't require deep knowledge before you can accumulating Bitcoin with the little you know about bitcoin investment you can get started if you have your discretionary income ready and then learn more along the process, sometimes trying to know all about bitcoin investment before getting started might lead to procastination of not even getting started before you realize your self you might use up your discretionary income which you would have to get started with for other unnecessary purposes, so getting started when the opportunity is there is very unique.

Is this applicable to everyone? Here we are talking about how poor people can invest in Bitcoin without having to spend their emergency funds so that they do not lose their Bitcoin easily.

A wealthy person can save their earned money in a few steps, while a poor person cannot, so he has to consider many aspects when investing. For example, if a person's monthly savings amount is $100, he can invest $100 in this case, he has to keep an eye on the emergency fund.
I just wanted to point out that he should never invest the entire $100 in Bitcoin because in case he needs some emergency money, he may not be able to collect money from any other source and have to convert Bitcoin into fiat currency, then he may not get the value obtained from Bitcoin.
Therefore, he should invest five, ten, or 15% of that $100 in Bitcoin and keep the rest invested in local currency or gold as an emergency fund so that he can use it when needed.

In an emergency, are you sure of paying with gold? Saving your emergency funds is not a tactical approach...a clearer manner, saving it in fiat remains the only option.

I agree that the main idea of emergency funds is to have them in cash - mostly due to concerns of liquidity, so it is a bit of a distraction to suggest gold as a good place for emergency funds.. even if gold might be some choice that works for some guys who are able to figure out gold's liquidity. .but it is not a very common option that can cause some confusion for guys to be referring to gold as if it is liquid and/or even practical for many folks. when there may well ONLY be a few places around the world where it is easy to exchange gold and/or to transact in it, so for example to convert it into local currency and/or to pay rent (and/or other bills with it)...

Quote from: Tonimez on June 13, 2025, 04:47:57 PM

Emergencies don't give notice before they hit. Investing in bitcoin is basically a discretionary income based venture. If anyone thinks that investing aggressively is by investing all your discretionary income, your energy my all be lost when nature demands a payback

Well to the extent that you are suggesting that a guy may well need to have various back up funds (that likely includes emergency funds) in place prior to his being able to be as aggressive as he is able to be, meaning to use 100% of his discretionary income to invest into bitcoin, I agree with you, yet you seem to also be suggesting that every paycheck, emergency funds have to come out of that, which does not tend to be true, since once an emergency fund is build up (or even extra backup funds are build up), those funds do not need to continue to be built up from discretionary income every pay period, and at that point 100% of the discretionary income could be used to buy bitcoin without necessarily going overboard with the investment technique.

Quote from: ejikeme24 on June 13, 2025, 11:45:44 PM

Quote from: POPOLUV on June 13, 2025, 08:11:48 PM

[edited out]

Surely investing from emergency fund is not the right way to go about it, but I would like to say something regarding this fact and see if it works. sometimes an investor may not have enough money in his discretionary fund for the week maybe due to the level of expenses for the week, but since he has enough money in his emergency fund, he can choose to take from the emergency since there's no emergency alerm in that intial time to replace it back, probably before it could get to the normal time when he's supposed to invest in bitcoin by then things must have been figured out. I know this would be a little bit tough because he would have to return the money which he took from the emergency fund and this can probably affect him in the following week as he will be looking for a way to get that certain amount which he set to go with, of which this seems like a play to me, this is why is advised to make a proper planning before diving into bitcoin investment to avoid playing around the market.

Guys can do whatever they like, and so it could take a bit of time to build up an emergency fund that is at least 3 months of expenses, so while the emergency fund is being built up there can be shortages of cash in which the income does not cover all of the expenses, and if the emergency fund is the only money available (besides the bitcoin investment) then of course, the emergency funds would be spent from before spending from the bitcoin.

Ideally, a person ends up building back up funds beyond the emergency funds, which we tend to refer to as reserve funds, and reserve funds have more flexibility. Sure, reserve funds can be used for emergencies, but they also can be used for a variety of expected expenses and/or later investments.

I frequently like to consider that the emergency funds are the last source of funds that a guy has available before he has to tap into his bitcoin, and we are trying to avoid tapping into our bitcoin except for at a time that is completely of our own choosing, so if we had already built up our emergency funds (to 3 months of expenses) and then maybe we have another 2-6 weeks worth of expenses that are in various categories of reserve funds, once we run out of reserve funds, the we likely are going to realize that we are not in a good place because the next thing that we want (or need) is going to have to come from our emergency funds if we do not get paid before the time that we want or need it, so in that sense it could be problematic for us to be tapping into our emergency funds for non-emergencies, yet the judgement is ultimately in our hands regarding how to deal with matters in which we might not have any other funds besides our emergency funds and our bitcoin, and if we may or may not know how many days it is before we receive our next paycheck.. and whether it might be worth it to tap in to our emergency funds for some kind of a temporary expense, perhaps based on an expectation that our paycheck is going to be sufficiently large enough to cover the emergency fund amount that we had tapped into.