Quote from: SmartCharpa on Today at 08:13:06 AM

Quote from: POPOLUV on June 18, 2025, 07:58:18 PM

I disagree with you when it comes to being patient in Bitcoin is not necessary, let me ask the process of you waiting for your investments to meet up your needs is called patient, i want you to understand that patient and self discipline have an important roles when it comes to either long term or short term investment because if you don't the patient enough to keep investment growing and to make a reasonable profit on Bitcoin investment it is very advisable to make use of Long term investment alongside with your emergency fund, patient have to be involved for you to be able to archive the long term investment.

I agree that patience and self discipline play important roles in investing, especially in something like Bitcoin, that changes price. However, being patient is not the only way to succeed in Bitcoin investments. You might be patient yet still lose money if you lack the right knowledge or invest without any proper research. Moreover, not everyone can afford to wait for a long time, some people can have an emergency or another life situation, so this idea of a long period does not work for those who do not set down emergency funds before investing. That is why I believe that patients should come with planning, and learning to make better choices. Of course, patience is important, but it is not the only key to successful Bitcoin investing.

Many of the attributes listed in your post can be worked on as you invest, including patience, discipline and even building up the cashflow management and emergency funds.

Getting started is important and just figuring out the extent to which you have a discretionary income so that investment into bitcoin and building up back up funds (including emergency funds) is not beyond such discretionary income. If such investor is open to learn he can start out with very basics, such as merely starting out with investing $10 per week or $100 per week as he is learning, perhaps getting more familiar with his own personal factors.

Quote from: Bluedrem on Today at 11:34:39 AM

Quote from: Gost ms on Today at 07:01:55 AM

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If your capital is low and your income is limited, then you will never be able to make a profit by investing with little knowledge and it will be difficult for you to survive in the investment.
Because your little knowledge can be enough to lose your little capital. Due to which you can get out of the investment by losing your little capital. Therefore, people with little capital and low income should gain as much knowledge as possible in the field of investment.

Yes, you can invest in Bitcoin with your little knowledge because in the past, it has been seen that even if the price of Bitcoin decreased for a temporary period, Bitcoin regained its previous value or more in a short time.
However, one must be psychologically strong in the field of investment. One should not get upset if the price decreases.

You are largely correct that low income/low capital people have to have some kind of a "more than" richer folks, and I would proclaim that they need better organization and cashflow management systems and/or practices rather than knowledge and/or even patience.. since much of the knowledge and/or patience that we need related to bitcoin relates to the ability to carry out basic math and common sense skills that most people already have, and they just need to put such math/common sense skills into practice on a regular basis in order to improve their financial/psychological situation and to attempt to bring some personally tailored balance to their investing into bitcoin and their cashflow management.

There surely may well be newbies coming into bitcoin with a lot of screwed up cashflow management and perhaps even some screwed up psychology based on their own financial circumstances, yet they can still get started investing into bitcoin with a mere assessment that they have income that exceeds their expenses (aka discretionary income). and so yeah, maybe when they get started investing into bitcoin they can make a ballpark assessment that their discretionary income is sufficiently enough that they should be able to invest $100 per week into bitcoin, yet they purposefully decide to start out with $33 per week, while they get used to it and also perhaps to use some of that extra money to shore up their emergency funds, to the extent that they might already have some extra cash within their practices (perhaps prior to getting involved in bitcoin, they have tended to already keep right in the ballpark of 2-6 weeks of extra cash to cover any potential short-falls and/or miscalculations in their income and/or expenses).

So maybe the newbie bitcoin investor starts out investing into bitcoin in a kind of gradual way and gets used to his own finances and psychology, and his views on bitcoin as compared with other possible places to put money is only one of the 9-ish factors that such newbie investor should be attempting to take into account and to assess.

Quote from: Jostern on Today at 12:28:04 PM

Quote from: Barikui1 on Today at 08:47:35 AM

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You absolutely thick a lot of boxes with your statement, I don’t think there is any situation that should force us to temper our emergency funds except for emergency and urgent needs that might put us in a situation or tempt us to access our bitcoin portfolio, I still think that is why we have our in come or having our reserved funds as well, but in a situation that we don’t have a reserved funds at that point it might jeopardize our emergency funds or force our hands towards our bitcoin reserves that is why we should plan to make all this strategies available. Practice actually makes this strategy possible.

I think that you are correct with a lot of what you say Jostern since there is a kind of ongoing practice element that helps any of us to figure out how much balance that we are able to accomplish on a regular basis in terms of considering how much emergency funds to have and how much of various other reserve funds, and so there likely will be times in which we come to feel that we have gone overboard in one direction or another in terms of various times that we might feel that we have too much cash or not enough cash on hand, so over the years, when the BTC price may well be moving around a lot we might wish that we were to have more cash available to buy on dips (for example) or we might have had wished that we had bought more BTC rather than holding onto so much cash during times that the BTC price is shooting upwards (for example).

So then, with practice and witnessing our emotions during various times, we likely might consider various ways that we might make adjustments to aspects of our cashflow management and/or our investment into bitcoin in order to help us to not feel as emotional during times in which the BTC price is moving around a lot or potentially during other times in which our cashflows might be put into some kind of a stress test...,.

So for example if we were to recognize that we are frequently running out of cash during certain periods in which we become stressed based on our having had run out of cash, then we may well figure out that we might be better off to keep a little more cash so that we do not experience that kind of stress.. and surely sometimes, we might not need to actually go through the actual stress in order to realize that there would be certain scenarios in which we can already imagine that our stress level would end up going up to intolerable levels if such a circumstance were to happen, so in that sense, we might not have to completely shift courses, but instead tweak a little bit in order to perhaps have a bit more cash so that we could lessen the level of stress in the event that either the imagined situation were to end up happening or something close to the situation ends up happening.

Quote from: Brainnybtc on Today at 01:51:26 PM

Quote from: melinoe on Today at 11:37:20 AM

Quote from: POPOLUV on Today at 11:20:53 AM

Are you just knowing that an emergency fund is for real-life situation all this while, there is something i want you understand, before you can buy or invest in Bitcoin you must have a discretionary income and this discretionary income is fund if you lose will not affect you much and which Bitcoin is beyond you lose all your money that you investment, since you have a steady cashflow you will always have plans for yourself outside Bitcoin investments, and which the same thing you should do when it comes to Bitcoin investments to avoid touching your holding incase if unforeseen circumstances occur you can make use of the emergency which no one is praying for it to happen but we just needed to plan ahead of us since no one can predict the future.

Steady income => steady investment process => good chances that you are going to be okay if the trouble eventually hits.

It doesn't matter if you have a steady income or not, if you don't prepare for the days you will be in lack, or in serious health issues that might compel you to temper with your Bitcoin holdings, in a situation like that, if you don't have emergency funds in place to sort it out, your Bitcoin holdings will not survive on the longer run because emergency situation is inevitable on the longer run.

For sure our various back up funds, back up systems and/or even emergency funds may well not be able to prepare us for all situations, even including running out of work for a few months, even if we might have had thought that we were largely prepared for a variety of circumstances, so in some sense there could be circumstances in which we end up tapping into our bitcoin at a time that is not of our choosing, and there might ONLY be so much preparation that we are willing to make in terms of how much cash we are keeping aside for various extreme scenarios that could end up happening, and so a lot of our preparation likely relates to attempting to prepare for more likely scenarios rather than extreme scenarios that might not happen, even though if the extreme scenario ends up happening, we have greater chances of either completely surviving it without damage or perhaps lower levels of damages as compared with if we had not engaged in adequate preparations.

Many times folks do not engage in much of any preparations since they seem to wrongly conclude that they need to prepare for some outrageous scenarios in order to be adequately prepared, so they end up erroneously preparing for nothing or almost nothing in terms of imagining that there is some need to either be perfect or to not take any preparations, when they may well have ended up completely saving themselves from their situation based on mediocre preparations.. and surely I am not proclaiming that mediocre preparations should be sought, but instead I am suggesting that even lower levels of preparations may well end up saving a person from a large variety of scenarios in which sometimes a person might ONLY need a cashfloat of 2-3 weeks.. but then they end up not having shit.. and then some minor cashflow problem ends up damaging their bitcoin investment in such way that they might never be able to recover to such a status as they would have had been if they and at least employed some modest preparations with their back up funds and/or emergency funds...

And, sure there is a bit of a priority to the kinds of funds, and if we are depleting various levels of funds, we likely would come to realize that our situation is becoming more serious, the more funds that we are depleting, yet we might have some kinds of funds that are specifically allotted for certain kinds of situations (such as buying the dip), yet there might be other funds that if we start to have to tap into those funds, then we realize that we are no longer able to buy bitcoin because our level of funds are becoming overly depleted, yet surely each of us will figure out some different balances, and going through the experiences might end up teaching us that we might need to make some tweaks to our system (and/or practices) so that we are more comfortable in regards to the balances that have been achieved.

Quote from: Wind_FURY on Today at 02:01:34 PM

Quote from: Brainnybtc on Today at 01:51:26 PM

Quote from: melinoe on Today at 11:37:20 AM

Quote from: POPOLUV on Today at 11:20:53 AM

Are you just knowing that an emergency fund is for real-life situation all this while, there is something i want you understand, before you can buy or invest in Bitcoin you must have a discretionary income and this discretionary income is fund if you lose will not affect you much and which Bitcoin is beyond you lose all your money that you investment, since you have a steady cashflow you will always have plans for yourself outside Bitcoin investments, and which the same thing you should do when it comes to Bitcoin investments to avoid touching your holding incase if unforeseen circumstances occur you can make use of the emergency which no one is praying for it to happen but we just needed to plan ahead of us since no one can predict the future.

Steady income => steady investment process => good chances that you are going to be okay if the trouble eventually hits.

It doesn't matter if you have a steady income or not, if you don't prepare for the days you will be in lack, or in serious health issues, like having an emergency funds in place to sort it out, your Bitcoin holdings will not survive on the longer run because emergency situation is inevitable on the longer run.

Actually, a steady income is a MUST for saving a part of your salary in Bitcoin, especially if you employ a DCA sort of strategy.

Holy fucking shit. Do you have any way that you can try to present yourself as a wee bit less dogmatic?

Think about your statement. It is not correct.

There is no need for a steady income to either save in bitcoin or to DCA into bitcoin.

The ONLY thing that you need is discretionary income that may or may not be steady.

You can also DCA without a steady income, which could mean that you buy bitcoin on some periodic basis or perhaps whenever you have extra cash or perhaps whenever you eat Ben and Jerry's ice cream.

In other words, DCA does not have to be on any exact schedule in order to still qualify as DCA. Sure there might be some aspect of regularity in DCA, but it is not necessarily some regularity that is necessarily imposed by anything (or anyone) else, since DCA can be whatever and however the buyer chooses to employ it for the purposes of buying bitcoin. In other words, we can still have DCA even if such BTC buying "regularity" might be on terms that any of us might consider to be erratic and not fitting our own definition of time and/or quantity of "regular."

Quote from: Wind_FURY on Today at 02:01:34 PM

Because it doesn't matter what you call "prepared", if you don't have a steady income then you definitely ARE NOT ready.

Ridiculous. Roll Eyes

Why do you feel some need to impose extra terms on people prior to their being able to start to invest in bitcoin?

Quote from: Wind_FURY on Today at 02:01:34 PM

Plus for plebs like us who want to employ a Buy the DIP strategy because, let's pretend it's finally the lows of the bear cycle, then he/she can take a loan to get a lump sum to buy those DIPs. But if he/she doesn't have a steady job, how can he/she pay for the monthly payments of the loan.

People do all kinds of dumb shit, but they can still do such dumb shit.. .and maybe it ends up being trading and/or gambling rather than investing, and maybe it ends up working out for them, since they are learning as they go, and they might not realize that they started out their bitcoin journey from a poor or an inadequate perspective... They still can get started buying bitcoin even if their finances, their psychology and their perspective is all screwed up... and yeah, they may well be following a lot of inferior practices, such as waiting for dips rather than buying regularly, but they can still employ such inferior practices and learn along the way.

Quote from: Wind_FURY on Today at 02:01:34 PM

No steady income = LOOK FOR A JOB. A Bitcoin investment should be the least of your problems if you don't have work.

I will agree that investing in bitcoin without discretionary income rises to the level of gambling (or trading) rather than investing, so there tends to be importance in terms of managing finances in better ways by making sure that investments into bitcoin come from discretionary income rather than from money needed for expenses.. and so sure, increasing income is one way to increase discretionary income and another way to increase discretionary income is to cut expenses.. and so I will also agree with you (to the extent that you are making such point) that guys are short-sighted who consider that they would be able to buy bitcoin and then cash out of some or all of their bitcoin as bitcoin goes up in price in order to support their expenses... These are not good ways of thinking about bitcoin, even though quite a few newbies come to bitcoin with that kind of problematic (and even gambling/trading mindset) kind of thinking.

Quote from: Silikiem on Today at 03:41:03 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 02:56:01 AM

[edited out]

.....your focus should be on continuous and consistent accumulation and hold for the long run, let’s say 5-10 years or more, and at this stage, the least you could do is, when you notice you’ve accumulated even more than enough of your targeted goal, you can decide to take out your profit and continue with your accumulation, that way it will not affect your bitcoin holdings or portfolio.

I surely did not state that there is a need for continuous and consistent accumulation - especially once a person reaches overaccumulation status.

Once a person reaches overaccumulation status, there is no need to buy back BTC.

Sure, optionally, guys can choose to buy back BTC, yet there is no need to consider buying back BTC to be part of your goal when you sell BTC after you have reached over accumulation status.

Maybe it can be helpful to go back to the example, and if the guy in the example knows that right now if he has at least 16.407 BTC, then, he can withdraw $80k per year in a perpetual way and even accounting for something like 7% per year dollar debasement that allows him to increase the withdrawal amount by 7% each year. Largely he knows that his BTC stash is growing in dollar value faster than the rate that he is withdrawing it.

So, I used the example of overaccumulation to exaggerate the point and to perhaps even assure that the guys is withdrawing from the overaccumulated amount, so he really does not need very much more than 16.407 BTC in order to be withdrawing from the overaccumulated amount since the BTC is going to be growing at a faster rate than it is withdrawn as ling as the guys tasys within his limitations, yet he still might be more comfortable to be quite a bit above the bare minimal threshold rather than being exactly at the bare minimal threshold for the $80k per year passive income.

In my example, I used the 27 BTC amount in order to show a situation in which the guy has 10 BTC extra, and sure that is excess in order to make the point.. since a guy with 27 BTC may well recognize that right now, he could withdraw from his BTC at a rate of $131k per year and he would still be withdrawing at a rate that is less than the BTC is going up in value.. yet out of an abundance of caution, just to make sure that his formulas are correct and that he is not selling too much BTC too soon, he decides to start out withdrawing at $80k per year rather than $131k per year, which largely results in an extra $51k-ish per year rolling over, continuing to grow and largely compounding in value upon itself with the passage of time.

Note, again, that I am using 200-WMA valuations in order to figure out my own assessments in regards to what I believe is a sustainable withdrawal rate, and guys can come to their own conclusions and/or create their own cushions so that they can feel comfortable that they are not withdrawing too much bitcoin too soon, since any of us who might make the mistakes of withdrawing too much bitcoin too soon will have to live with the consequences of our mistake rather than proclaiming that someone else (such as me) was wrong in their valuation formulas. I am not going to take responsibility for anyone else's valuations and/or choices and each of us has to figure out these matters for ourselves including our comfort levels and to take responsibility if the sustainable withdrawal system does not end up working out to our expectations.

Any of you guys thinking that there is some kind of need or requirement to continue to accumulate bitcoin once reaching overaccumulation status are either not getting the concept regarding how sustainable withdrawal works or not understanding that there can be instances in which extra accumulation could take place in an optional way. .which may well mean that extra accumulation and/or re-accumulation is not necessary in order for the system to be sustainable.. which largely means that the amount of bitcoin sold is done without any expectation of being able to buy it back which also means that the amount is so small (relatively speaking) that there is no need to buy it back;. even though it may be enough of an amount to completely sustain the person in their expected lifestyle... whatever level that might be.