Quote from: ghost43 on June 23, 2025, 08:56:28 PM

Note that the checksum in BIP39 seeds is weak. A 12 word BIP39 seed only has a 4 bit checksum. There is a 1/16 chance that a random selection of 12 words from the wordlist is a valid seed.

Please also note, the crux of the issue lies in this alleviation/mitigation.
That chaotic combination of mnemonic phrases is a BIP-39 seed, but it cannot be imported into other mainstream wallets like Trust Wallet, Phantom, or MetaMask, even though these wallets do support BIP-39 seed phrases!!"
"That chaotic combination of mnemonic phrases can only be successfully imported into Electrum wallet using the [BIP-39] format option, which is the strangest part."
"All I've said so far is to express my suspicion that Electrum might have some unknown mechanism that causes this result

Quote from: Cricktor on June 23, 2025, 08:46:08 PM

Quote from: Maverick Zeng on June 23, 2025, 11:18:23 AM

Importing the mnemonic in the 'correct' order leads to the phishing scam wallet associated with Facebook.
Using the mnemonic in the order 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 results in that scam/phishing wallet.

What's the purpose to have your whole post in bold face? (Removed for sanity)

I don't care about Facebook and won't look or search there. Are the recovery words of what you label as phishing scam wallet public?
If yes, then you can disclose them here. It's just that I don't believe you. You know the drill: don't trust, verify!

Quote from: Maverick Zeng on June 23, 2025, 11:18:23 AM

However, using the mnemonic in the order 1, 7, 2, 8, 3, 9, 4, 10, 5, 11, 6, 12, I tested and found a third-party Bitcoin wallet with actual transaction records.

This is your claim and so far we can't prove your claim. I say again, I don't believe you, because first, it's, as you said, highly unlikely that the different word order produces a valid BIP39 word sequence with proper checksum. Second, why would someone else have funded addresses even partially equal to such an invalid BIP39 wallet?

I can confirm what nc50lc said, Electrum clearly warns about an invalid checksum when you change the order of a given valid BIP39 recovery word sequence but still lets you derive a wallet from the invalid sequence.

Quote from: Maverick Zeng on June 23, 2025, 11:18:23 AM

In other words, it was an extremely, extremely low-probability, accidental discovery.

Yadda, yadda, ... show proof or it didn't happen!

This is my first time using this forum, and I don't understand many of its functions. My English is also translated using Google Translate."
"I wrote all this just to express my curiosity, confusion, and lack of understanding regarding that event."
"Regarding what you said about importing that 'chaotic combination' into the Electrum wallet under the BIP-39 format option, the third-party Bitcoin wallet that was opened was definitively not newly created by Electrum during the import!"
"I also tried importing various combinations of other brand-new BIP-39 format mnemonic phrases into Electrum again, but the results were always empty, invalid addresses. So, my point is, was hitting and opening that third-party Bitcoin address a completely incredible coincidence/probability?"

Quote from: pooya87 on June 23, 2025, 04:38:30 PM

Quote from: Maverick Zeng on June 23, 2025, 11:18:23 AM

In other words, it was an extremely, extremely low-probability, accidental discovery.

The chances of collision is so low that it is impossible only if you created the seed phrase yourself using a strong random number generator. But this is not the case here. You say you have found these words on the internet (on Facebook) and you claim it is a scam attempt.

The chances of it is actually very high to see the words used in the same order they were posted to generate a wallet with transaction history (the "scammer" did that intentionally).

Since my previous posts mentioned specific mnemonic word orders, I cannot disclose the detailed mnemonic phrases. If I did, others could use the number sequences I previously mentioned to open that third-party Bitcoin wallet, which would expose their private key and compromise their privacy. Please forgive me if my Google Translate English isn't perfectly accurate!"
"Regarding what you mentioned: if those 12 mnemonic words are combined in the normal sequence (1, 2, 3, 4... 12), the resulting wallet is that of the Facebook scammer."
"However, using the exact same 12 mnemonic words, but in an interleaved sequence like 1, 7, 2, 8, 3, 9, etc., results in that third-party Bitcoin wallet. The key point is that this third-party Bitcoin private key wallet is completely unrelated to the scammer's wallet – they share the same mnemonic words, but the order is different!"
"Most importantly: that third-party wallet, generated by the 'chaotic combination,' was not newly created by Electrum during the import process. It has existed for several years and has recent Bitcoin transaction history from the last ten-odd days. This is truly bizarre/magical."
"I'm not sure if Google Translate perfectly conveys my meaning in English, haha."

Quote from: nc50lc on June 23, 2025, 09:59:09 AM

Quote from: Maverick Zeng on June 23, 2025, 07:36:05 AM

I have discussed all the intricate details with both Google Gemini and Grok, and they both found it to be incredible/unbelievable/impossible!!"

Because that will never likely happen unless there's a collision with the resulting binary seed from the jumbled and properly arranged mnemonic.

Quote from: Maverick Zeng on June 23, 2025, 07:36:05 AM

It's as if both you and 'Jack' have exactly the same 12 words in your mnemonic phrases, but just in a different order.
The mnemonic order 123456789101112 opens your private key.

Have you actually tested to create the wallet with the correct order of words and checked the addresses if they matched?
Or just assumed that it's the same wallet because it has transaction history?

Are you using a legit version of Electrum? With verified signatures from its developers.

Perhaps my Google Translate English didn't perfectly convey what I wanted to say.
I am absolutely certain that the 'chaotic combination' mnemonic and the Facebook scammer's mnemonic consist of the exact same 12 words; only their order is different.
The normal sequence (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6... 12) results in the scammer's wallet.
However, the interleaved, 'chaotic' sequence (1, 7, 2, 8, 3, 9...) results in that third-party Bitcoin private key wallet.
What I can definitively confirm is that this third-party Bitcoin private key wallet was not newly created by Electrum during my import process. This is because the third-party Bitcoin wallet has existed for several years and has recent Bitcoin transactions from the last ten days or so, with single transaction amounts around 0.003 Bitcoin.
I used the legitimate Electrum application from the Google Play Store, and I also downloaded it from the official Electrum website.
After saying all this, I wonder if Google can fully translate what I'm trying to express, hahaha."