Quote from: Sonia_123 on Today at 01:37:17 AM

Quote from: Platinumys on June 29, 2025, 06:47:52 PM

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That is where you get it all wrong, emergency fund are mandatory, even if you don't have it immediately before starting your investment, you gradually build it up for 3-4 months while you use your discretionary income to start your investment.
Emergency fund is very important in our Bitcoin investment journey, there are some investor who started there bitcoin investment without emergency fund which was later build up later along the line.
So not having emergency fund at the beginning of your bitcoin investment does not mean that it is not important to your Bitcoin investment, it helps you to keep your investment safe

As soon as your emergency funds are built up for about 3 months of your expenses you can decide to stop adding, except you want to still be increasing your emergency fund due to some personal expenses that might justify increasing your emergency funds to a higher level to at least match 3 months of your expenses, emergency funds are only for emergencies.

I would suggest that amounts that are greater than 3 months of your expenses are no longer emergency funds but instead reserve funds with more flexibility in terms of why they are being held and/or how much of them any person might feel that they need to have whether such reserve funds might be held for consumption or extra expenses or even for buying dips and various other discretionary or even extra emergency purposes... but beyond 3 months of expenses has more flexibility in terms of how it is held and/or how flexible it might need ot be in terms of liquidity (meaning where it is held as long as it might be still able to be liquidated within a few months or by the time a person might exhaust his actual emergency funds, the extra funds in reserves could potentially be made available as further back ups to cashflow shortage situations that persist beyond three months or that need more than 3 months worth of expenses cash.

Quote from: Tungbulu on Today at 03:55:03 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on June 29, 2025, 12:24:29 AM

Quote from: Tungbulu on June 28, 2025, 04:47:54 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on June 27, 2025, 11:13:24 PM

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I doubt that it is enough to merely have a price and time target since bitcoin as compared with fiat is a moving target and it would likely play out too simply to just have narrow targets, especially if anyone is attempting to actually understand bitcoin as more than just a trade. .but yeah, sure people can do whatever they like in terms of their figuring out what their goals might be within the process of accumulating.. and then figuring out what comes next .. is it just getting in and out of the bitcoin or is there some attempts at maintenance involved.

Bitcoin indeed has quite a volatile and dynamic nature and this nature of bitcoin makes it very difficult and challenging to set simple price and time targets. Bitcoin's value fluctuates rapidly all the time and since Bitcoin is still relatively a new technology, its adoption and use case has the potential to evolve with time. So to truly understand Bitcoin, one needs to consider its underlying technology, it's use cases as well as market trends.

Frequently, I like to think in terms of measuring as you go but also keeping in mind how much it costs to live for a month or a year, and there can be ways to evaluate the passive income generating abilities of an asset (in this case bitcoin) as compared with its principle value. Many times the income generating capacity is more important since it seems that we should strive to have goals to try have our investment being sustainable, which largely means preserve the principle rather than depleting it.

Quote from: Tungbulu on Today at 03:55:03 AM

Bitcoin accumulation may indeed be quite a complex process and it's pretty much normal for people to have different goals and expectations when investing. Some might focus more on HODLing for the long term, some might decide to delve into the short term, and others might decide to use it solely as a store of value or even for cross border transactions, and this is why it's important to identify your own goals before delving in, as this could potentially help you choose a strategy that aligns pretty well with that goal.

Above, you listed two goals that seem to be the same thing... I think that one of the goals is long term or storage like you mentioned, but the other goal is to have the investment in order to spend it to buy something else... whether a house, a lambo a yacht or whatever..

So, from my perspective there are goals that involve depleting the principle and goals that revolve around attempts at sustainable withdrawal.. .. and sure there can be other goals of not spending (or depleting the bitcoin at all). From my perspective, the non-spending goals would likely fit within the sustainable withdrawal category.

Quote from: EarnOnVictor on Today at 05:47:41 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on June 29, 2025, 09:29:45 PM

Quote from: EarnOnVictor on June 29, 2025, 07:55:11 AM

Quote from: Derekfunds on June 28, 2025, 08:14:45 AM

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I can't agree more, and I am one of those people who will still regret not buying enough Bitcoin or starting to buy it late. There is a percentage of my Bitcoin that I liquidated early, and they are all painful now. As they say, we learn by our mistakes, but this one seems bitter, even though I earn from other aspects of earning. Regardless, imagine me starting to buy Bitcoin when I know it is below $500 and keep it forever? It would have been a fortune for me now, and will continue to add to my fortune because Bitcoin is progressive. Well, I've made the change now, I've been buying and buying, and I hope in 2050, I can sing more praises instead of lamenting the past missed opportunities.

So?
That means that you have converted from a bitcoin trader into a bitcoin investor?
Perhaps? perhaps?

Many of us likely realize that it is good to learn from our mistakes and figure out some balance that works for us in regards to our investing and our cashflow management practices, since many times it can be difficult to get outside of a traders mentality and really start to employ investor techniques and/or strategies.

I remember not very long ago, you were proclaiming that there were ways to outperform investors by knowing when to skim off the top and to play the waves.. so maybe you have come to realize that those strategies are especially risky for guys still in their accumulation phase because they end up selling too many BTC too soon, when they probably should have had just stuck with buying rather than fucking around thinking that they would be able to buy back cheaper when that might not end up working out.

Well, I am still what I am, but with a little twist, and this twist only affects my long-term Bitcoin investment (HODLING) mentality. I continue to stay true to all those views that you know, except for the target plan on the 4-year cycle liquidation. I buy different Bitcoins in different accounts for different reasons.

Yep.. it can be difficult to break bad old habits, especially if you don't consider them to be bad.

Quote from: EarnOnVictor on Today at 05:47:41 AM

For more understanding, I liquidated almost all my Bitcoin that I started buying since 2022 in 2024 when I believed it was ripe enough, although that has been my plan. The current belief only suggests that I can just leave that different account stash (for long term) forever. This doesn't apply to all (Bitcoin in other accounts, for different purposes, especially the one you termed for trading).

Well.. you might not damage your self as much if you would be able to limit your trading account to ONLY around 10% of the size of your bitcoin investment, but yes.. of course, gamblers do not have abilities to impose such strict limits on themselves.. and they think that they are able to profit more by playing BIGGER...

Even if you are not able to limit your trading to 10%, then hopefully, you can find some kind of a reasonable balance to help you to actually get into a better mentality (perspective) in regards to your bitcoin... but yeah.. I understand that gambling (trading) is a kind of slippery-slope addiction.... and difficult to control position sizes... for the traders (gamblers) who think they got it all figured out.

Quote from: Gallar on Today at 06:29:36 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 12:16:36 AM

Quote from: Tonimez on June 29, 2025, 09:59:16 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on June 29, 2025, 09:29:45 PM

Quote from: Platinumys on June 29, 2025, 06:47:52 PM

However, emergency fund is not mandatory for everyone.

That is a strange statement, and I find it difficult to understand how anyone could consider themselves as an investor in bitcoin without some kind of emergency funds (or back up funds) - and surely there could be some cases in which discretionary income is guaranteed.. and so those funds may well be serving as emergency funds.

Essentially, it makes no sense to me to proclaim that emergency funds are not mandatory... especially if we are talking in terms of investing rather than gambling.. Sure, if you are gambling then there are a lot of things that you can do that no rational person would do, absent some dire circumstances in which they might not have a choice.

It is indeed a very strange statement to say that Emergency funds is not mandatory. Anyone who is really interested in bitcoin investment would understand that Emergency funds is a must have to safeguard your bitcoin stash. Anyone who sees emergency funds as not mandatory is either a trader or not ready for bitcoin investment. Gamblers sometimes disguise as investors to spread some false information about bitcoin accumulation and investment strategies.

But there some common unambiguous knowledge that anyone should have...one of them is that Emergency funds is a must have if you really aim at holding for a long time. Tampering with your emergency funds is also another way of leaving bitcoin investment any moment.

Several times in this thread, and maybe some of the related threads, we have observed that there are likely a lot of people (especially rich people) who have a lot of various resources, including that they may well have friends and family that would bail them out of short-term cashflow situations.. such as.. this might be dad or mom.. :

"0h shit, son.. you invested in bitcoin on the dip and you don't have enough money in the bank to cover your rent, car payments or to go on your planned trip to Hawaii for the upcoming weekend.. . no problem.. .. sure, I wished that you had some better cashflow management skills, but that is not a problem and you can just figure all of that later. ... in the meantime, here is a $20k loan.. .. just pay me back whenever you get your cashflow situation back in order" .. .

In these kinds of rich people situations, the $20k "loan" may not even need to get paid back. .and the son might even have some.. other back up ways to get money in case dad or mom did not bail him out.

In my opinion, emergency funds are not only a must when investing in bitcoin. But we must still have emergency funds even if we do not invest in any assets. So with this, it is certain that if we invest in bitcoin, we must have an emergency fund. Especially for people who already have families who have more needs. Because for people who are still single, emergency funds are still needed if we invest in bitcoin.

Hopefully, you are able to figure out some kind of a balance.

And surely if you are in a situation in which your income and/or your expenses are erratic, then I would consider that you are likely holding over reserve funds and/or floating funds, which means that money that you are holding over is not available for investing - it happens to be part of your expense.. so you cannot invest that money until it is clearly part of your discretionary funds. And, yeah, it can take a decent amount of time to build up your income and/ir to have your expenses in a good enough place that you are able to identify discretionary income that you are able to invest.

Families are not the only ones with erratic expenses, and similarly with businesses, there may well be needs to hold more funds in reserves for businesses too, and so that money is not really "emergency" but instead just part of expenses or anticipated expenses that are needed to keep on hand for the running of the business... and if those funds are always tight, then the business (or the family man) does not have discretionary money available for investing into bitcoin.. .. and so I would not call those kinds of funds "emergency funds" since they are serving a bit of a different purpose.. .and yeah, you are likely correct that you cannot invest into bitcoin if you don't have enough discretionary income that surpasses your anticipated expenses..

Now, if your family is causing you expenses that you deem to be unwarranted, then you might well need to engage in efforts to remedy those kinds of situations, and if you are not able to remedy the situation to reduce the expense, then you likely just need to keep more funds on hand in order to be able to deal with those extra expenses during the times that they come. .since they seem to be somewhat anticipated in advance, even if it seems that you might not exactly know the specifics of those expenses in advance.

Quote from: Gallar on Today at 06:29:36 AM

But it's a different story for people who are rich, or born from rich people. Of course, people like that don't need to worry about emergency funds.

Even if rich folks might not purposefully set aside emergency funds, yeah, you are correct, they may already naturally have such funds that they are able to draw upon and so in that regard they have advantages over poor people and in that regard poor people need to be more purposeful and more organized in order to not fuck up their cashflow situation or their investment by overdoing their investment into bitcoin if the do not have adequate funds in order to make sure that they are spending within their discretionary funds and not beyond their discretionary funds.

Quote from: Gallar on Today at 06:29:36 AM

Because basically when experiencing an emergency, people like that will definitely be helped immediately. Whether it's an accident, illness, or something else that is an emergency. Because basically their family is rich. So when they invest in bitcoin, even without having an emergency fund, they will definitely be safe.

Rich people can still fuck up, but yeah, essentially you are correct that they tend to have a lot of back up resources as compared with poor folks...so poor folks need to be more organized and more deliberate in order to get ahead and not to fuck up their various opportunities.

Quote from: Gallar on Today at 06:29:36 AM

But for middle-class people, I think emergency funds are still very much needed. Because of course when an emergency comes, our grip is only on the emergency fund and we cannot rely on other people. Because if you don't have emergency funds, of course the Bitcoin you have collected will be the victim.

There is no reason to argue semantics.. People with more resources and higher level of discretionary funds have more options, so it is a matter of degree and surely anyone can end up screwing things up, yet the punchline of the matter is that folks who are poorer need to be more organized to be able to put themselves in situations in which they are building their funds and building their back up funds and building their options. so it can take a while with someone with few resources to build up his situation in terms of both his investments and his cashflow management systems so that he can end up having various kinds of financial cushions and in order to be abl eto increase his aggressiveness in regards to his bitcoin investment.

Quote from: Slimzeee on Today at 11:18:31 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 12:16:36 AM

Quote from: Tonimez on June 29, 2025, 09:59:16 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on June 29, 2025, 09:29:45 PM

Quote from: Platinumys on June 29, 2025, 06:47:52 PM

However, emergency fund is not mandatory for everyone.

That is a strange statement, and I find it difficult to understand how anyone could consider themselves as an investor in bitcoin without some kind of emergency funds (or back up funds) - and surely there could be some cases in which discretionary income is guaranteed.. and so those funds may well be serving as emergency funds.

Essentially, it makes no sense to me to proclaim that emergency funds are not mandatory... especially if we are talking in terms of investing rather than gambling.. Sure, if you are gambling then there are a lot of things that you can do that no rational person would do, absent some dire circumstances in which they might not have a choice.

It is indeed a very strange statement to say that Emergency funds is not mandatory. Anyone who is really interested in bitcoin investment would understand that Emergency funds is a must have to safeguard your bitcoin stash. Anyone who sees emergency funds as not mandatory is either a trader or not ready for bitcoin investment. Gamblers sometimes disguise as investors to spread some false information about bitcoin accumulation and investment strategies.

But there some common unambiguous knowledge that anyone should have...one of them is that Emergency funds is a must have if you really aim at holding for a long time. Tampering with your emergency funds is also another way of leaving bitcoin investment any moment.

Several times in this thread, and maybe some of the related threads, we have observed that there are likely a lot of people (especially rich people) who have a lot of various resources, including that they may well have friends and family that would bail them out of short-term cashflow situations.. such as.. this might be dad or mom.. :

In these kinds of rich people situations, the $20k "loan" may not even need to get paid back. .and the son might even have some.. other back up ways to get money in case dad or mom did not bail him out.

To be honest, the whole idea of emergency funds being pressed on people’s necks sounds a bit off to me.

You are ultimately in control of everything related to your investment and your cashflow management, so if you want to be a dumb fuck and perceive that ideas are being pushed on you then that is your choice to stay dumb and not figure out the rationale behind the ideas.

Quote from: Slimzeee on Today at 11:18:31 AM

First of all, we’re always told to only invest what we can afford to lose something that won’t break your back if it disappears.

Of course. You should not be investing what you cannot afford to lose.

If you are investing what you cannot afford to lose, then you are gambling rather than investing.

In the end, though, you can do whatever the fuck you like.. and be dumb about it. You are in charge of your investment choices and/or your cashflow management choices.

Quote from: Slimzeee on Today at 11:18:31 AM

Then, regardless of any aid or help you might get, you’re still expected to have some financial capability to handle your regular struggles without throwing all your money into crypto.

First off. Hopefully you are not fucking around with "crypto" or shitcoins.. We are talking about bitcoin here, but yeah, of course, guys get distracted into trading, and surely traders get distracted into shitcoins.

Second. Regarding position size, hopefully any investment that you are making into bitcoin is coming from your discretionary income and you are not investing beyond your discretionary income. The extent to which you have back up funds (and/or emergency funds) can help you out if you make mistakes in calculating your discretionary income, and having those back up funds can also help you out if you have extra expenses and/or short falls in your income.

Third. The longer you invest into bitcoin and build up your various cashflow management systems, then it is likely the more comfortable you will become with whatever balances you choose to make. Participating in threads like this can help you to become smarter about how you go about it, so you might not make as many mistakes. Even though experience is a good teacher, sometimes we can learn various tricks from the experiences and ideas of others (including members of a forum like this).

Quote from: Slimzeee on Today at 11:18:31 AM

But does it really have to be called “emergency funds”?

Emergency funds is a kind of back up funds.

One of the advantages in regards to labels is to help to distinguish and to organize yourself in better ways.. so for example, if a guy is investing in BTC for a while and building up his emergency funds, he may well come to realize that if he gets to a point that he has to dip into his emergency funds, then he is getting into a pretty desperate situation.. . .so he may well want to structure his cashflow management and the various ways that he is spending money so that he never has to tap into his emergency funds and he can likely lead a much more comfortable life in terms of understanding the limits of his aggressiveness in his investing and including potentially getting to his overaccumualtion status quicker than he would otherwise.. because he is more organized and he is not screwing himself up due to his own mistakes.

It is up to you what you want to call things, yet if you fight with some of the terms, you might not be attempting to engage with the ideas and/or figuring out the rationale behind the labels... and yeah, in the end you can do what you liek and learn from your experiences, and hopefully you do not end up fucking up so much that you never are able to recover, which sometimes happens to guys who think they know everything and they manage their investments badly and they fail/refuse to engage in solid (strong) cashflow management practices.

Quote from: Jostern on Today at 11:40:44 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 12:16:36 AM

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You're absolutely right, I've come to understand that there are so many folks who do invest in Bitcoin who are from a rich and wealthy family and they don't seems to know what emergency, reserved funds is all about, because they always have cash or money to save them from any emergency situation they might find themselves in, they have family members or parents who are there to always help them with some bills and expenses they don't even have to struggle with getting a job or source of income, there wealth is there to always keep them a floating, they don't even have to touch there Bitcoin investment because everything they need and require is always mapped out for them.

Some rich folks also have bad habits because they never learned some of the underlying matters, yet I am not going to proclaim that rich people are dumb because sometimes you do not need to suffer in order to learn good habits.. so even if a rich person might have had gotten bailed out all his life, he still might have had learned some good habits along the way, too. Perhaps? perhaps?

Quote from: EarnOnVictor on Today at 05:08:21 PM

Quote from: Sim_card on Today at 04:57:03 PM

Quote from: EarnOnVictor on Today at 05:47:41 AM

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You cannot outsmart the market in the long run because bitcoin price increases overtime. Your price target to take profit as a trader is very small compared to the height that bitcoin price will reach in future. I believe that you are in regrets now for not having those quantity of bitcoin that you sold very cheap at $73+ or so. You will appreciate investing in bitcoin if you can only build and grow your bitcoin stash for more than two circles with only buying and not selling, but when your mindset is in a short term, you cannot resist the temptation of selling.

Don't have a price target to sell but have a bitcoin target to accumulate, it will help you overcome the temptation of selling too soon without reaching your bitcoin target.

Should I view this as spam or what? Or are you writing to seek @JayJuanGee's merit? Because your response is just uncalled for, your opinion doesn't count here, please.

Whoops. I already sent him an smerit..

Quote from: EarnOnVictor on Today at 05:08:21 PM

It was a direct response to @JayJuanGee, and has tackled all aspects of whatever you can use your Bitcoin for in the form of diversification, so why preach against what is working for me, even when I do long-term investment as well? Please, keep your approach to Bitcoin investing to yourself. Your style and plan mustn't be my style and plan.

This is an open thread.. so guys can respond to any of the posts of other members. You seem to believe that some of the members (including Sim_card) are brain washed or they are not posting within their own ideas because they are ONLY seeking the receipt of smerits. There is a bit of a problem with that approach, even if there is truth in the assertion that members seek the receipt of smerits.. ,,

It seems better to address the substance of their posts rather than merely accusing them to be biased or brainwashed or without valid comments.

Quote from: I_Anime on Today at 05:10:54 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 12:16:36 AM

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That's true most of folks are not bothered with emergency funds that much because their guidance usually act like one for them, like some one who is still leaving in Under his parents roof and same time accumulating Bitcoin for instance, are in advantage . Because their parents are going to be one taken care of their need while they use their allowance to accumulate Bitcoin, especially when the folk have a well paying skill that can earn he or she some extra bucks .

So for such person emergency funds is not completely necessary, because their parents has already being playing such role for them in taken care of their needs and stuff .

Even if they might not realize that it is emergency funds, it still is good for us to think about their having emergency funds, and part of the reason that normies (and especially poor folks) have to purposefully organize themselves in order to strive to have good systems and practices in place in order to attempt to account for their situation and the reasons that poor people need to be more organized and even better in their various cashflow management systems in order to get ahead and not to end up fucking up because they were inadequately accounting for their own vulnerabilities.

Guys frequently compare themselves to Miichael Saylor. ;and if they are poor, they will end up fucking themselves up if they even come close to trying to employ similar levels of aggressiveness as Saylor/MSTR in their own BTC investment style and/or their cashfllow management practices.