Quote from: Mehmet69 on July 03, 2025, 05:19:03 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on July 02, 2025, 07:52:04 PM

Quote from: Mehmet69 on July 02, 2025, 04:39:39 PM

Yes, you are right. Investing in Bitcoin is a completely personal decision of an individual. We cannot force anyone to invest. We can only give them the right advice.
Since we have decided to invest in Bitcoin. So we have to do all the things through which we can easily accumulate more Bitcoin. More or less, we all have the desire to accumulate at least 1 Bitcoin in our portfolio. But most people start accumulating Bitcoin in the wrong way. Some do not have a proper plan. Some use investment as an emergency fund. Some wait to create all kinds of backups before investing.

I want to tell all of them, you should not plan so much without starting investing. Start investing as soon as possible. Because, two things are needed for a person to invest in Bitcoin. 1. Regular investment 2. Managing the investment with prudent income. Nothing else is needed beyond this. However, the additional things we are talking about are the things to do to sustain this investment consistently. Therefore, although investing is a personal matter, I believe we should be given sound advice.

Do you (Mehmet69) really consider that any of us are giving advice and/or financial advice here or in the real world when we are talking about bitcoin and/or bitcoin investment related matters and/or cashflow management matters?

I don't consider that I am giving any advice, even though I am sharing ideas, and members of the forum and even people in the real world have to figure out for themselves if they want to invest in bitcoin or not and/or if they want to figure out ways to manage their cashflows in strong ways when they are choosing to invest into bitcoin.

Each person is ultimately responsible for his choices whether or not to invest into bitcoin and/or whether and/or how to manage their cashflows. if they fuck up by either investing into bitcoin or failing to invest into bitcoin, then that is on them. They are completely responsible no matter which direction their actions go, and they will either suffer the consequences if they screw up or reap the benefits if they make the right kinds of choices and take the right kinds of actions.

Yes, you are absolutely right. Every person has the full right to make their own decisions. We are just sharing our own experiences. We are not imposing any kind of decision on them. I am not giving any financial advice to the experts.

The purpose of what I said earlier was to motivate those who have decided to invest in Bitcoin but are not starting to invest to start investing quickly. But not for those who are not interested in investing.

At the end of the day, we are all moving forward in our own way and trying to learn something from each other's experiences.

I personally attempt to avoid creating the impression that I am giving advice, even though yeah sometimes when we are making suggestions to people about their ways of investing, people might consider that they are following our suggestions when they also need to make sure that they are doing what they believe is good for their own circumstances and they are able to deal with whatever investment plan that they have.. In the end, it seems that one of the main points should be that each person is figuring out their own strategies and/or approaches to bitcoin investing and/or cashflow management.

Quote from: Solokan on July 03, 2025, 06:54:54 AM

Quote from: Lembo69 on July 02, 2025, 09:51:32 PM

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I agree with you that without an emergency fund, our investment in BTC will be in danger because of course there will always be many obstacles that will be faced in this life. However, for beginners who want to invest in BTC, of course, in my opinion, they can also invest in BTC without having an emergency fund, but as long as it is only temporary because rather than not investing in BTC at all and if later there are more funds, we can use the extra funds to be used as emergency funds and it would be better if the emergency fund was added at all times because of course by adding an emergency fund, it will certainly make our investment safer.

So of course, sometimes many investors forget about emergency funds, even though it is a fatal mistake and with an emergency fund plus an emergency fund that is always added at all times, it will make us strong in holding BTC for the long term and of course the most important thing is that we don't panic easily because of course in investing in BTC for the long term, we must be mentally strong because having an emergency fund will also make the BTC we have sold if we don't have a strong mentality.

Some folks might not call things the same thing, such as if they have a cash cushion or back up funds or some place that they might go (mommy/daddy) if they run out of money.. so they might not even think about some of the basic matters that a person with fewer resources has to consciously play out, especially if he wants to attempt to invest into bitcoin aggressively.

There are also some folks who invest some small portion of their income, and they generally have a good income, so their income ends up serving as an emergency fund, and anyone not really pushing any limits might not really get anywhere with his investments either.. to the extent that there might be some future need to have had saved / invested - since some folks might be able to earn well in a certain portion of their lives, but if they not plan well, then they may end up in either a poverty situation or unable to even closely match some of their earlier income lifestyle choices.

Some of the higher paid professional athletes will sometimes earn a very high income, such as even in the millions per year, or even several hundred thousand per year, but then end up NOT planning and/or investing their earnings very well, so then if they become unemployable then they might need to live off of their investments from their earlier hight paying earnings, if they had made any investments during the time that they were earning high amounts. Surely, many of us would speculate that an athlete who might have had several years making more than $1 million per year, then maybe even just a few years of investing well, then he should be set for life. Even for western style living, many times, just a couple of million invested will result in at least an entry level income of being able to live perpetually off of the income from such investment, as long as the investment is managed well, and I surely suggest that a mere $800k valued at the 200-WMA prices in bitcoin would result in ability to withdraw $80k per year perpetually, yet right now that is a minimum of 16.203 BTC, and surely a few years back it would have had been fairly easy to accumulate 16.203 BTC over around 4 years of investing at $2,800 per week (about $12k per month) and for a total of right around $600k invested a person could have had accumulated at least 16.203 BTC... and so not necessarily easy for a regular person, yet for someone who is making more than $1 million per year, it would not be very difficult to invest $600k into bitcoin over 4 years. .. but still sometimes there is a need for some foresight and planning, even for guys who have decent amounts of money.. and surely many of us might conclude that even the lower paid of the professional athletes who make $300k per year could invest $600k over 4 years... even though it can be a bit presumptuous to expect someone making $300k per year to live off of the other $150k, since taxes might be nearly $50k, and leave them "only" $100k per year to live off of since the other $150k per year would be invested into bitcoin.

And yeah, of course, it does take some effort to also identify bitcoin as the place to invest, rather than getting distracted into some non-bitcoin asset, which likely a lot of professional athletes get sucked into real estate, which many of us bitcoiners realize real estate is an inferior place to put value, as compared with bitcoin.

Quote from: Cossyblack on July 03, 2025, 09:50:40 AM

However As investors our discretional income differs in sizes, likewise the low income earners who's discretional income isn't that big should consider building and funding their emergency reserved consistently for At least a period of 1 Year in other to have a stronger Emergency funds that is capable of handling bigger real life Emergencies situations.

It does not necessarily help you to have larger than 3 months of expenses in your emergency fund, especially someone trying to build his investments.. and really you could end up screwing yourself over by having a lot of value tied up in cash - since emergency funds are generally considered as being in cash, liquid and easier to access...

Of course, you can have reserve funds that supplement your emergency funds, and depending on the size of your bitcoin investment, you might find it useful to start to diversify into other investments which are ways of keeping more value in cash, cash equivalents or even fairly liquid investments.. and yeah those kinds of funds/assets could go quite a beyond your cash/emergency fund holdings.... which then might get us into justifications for diversification and when it might make sense to start to diversify, when maybe there might also be desires to mostly grow bitcoin holdings... but sometimes it might start to make sense to keep some value in other assets, whether property, stocks, bonds, commodities, cash/cash equivalent... even some business activities might make sense.

Quote from: Derekfunds on July 03, 2025, 02:15:43 PM

Quote from: Futurexxx on July 03, 2025, 09:16:50 AM

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I disagree with you dude, our emergency and reserve funds doesn't come from or is not gotten from our discretionary rather it is also part of the money that an investor split while making budget of everything from his or her income. Therefore, discretionary is a separate money on its own that its purpose is for accumulating Bitcoin to increase our portfolio while that of emergency and reserve are also separate money that is used majorly for a specific task, because each of this money has specific activity they are to be used for and if peradventure any of these funds is not used accordingly, it can result to so many things depending.

Your outline and explanation is confusing Derekfunds.

Discretionary income is all of the money that you have left once you have accounted for basic /essential expenses...

So everything except essential expenses comes from discretionary.

You cannot invest or do anything beyond your essential expenses if you do not make more than your basic expenses.

Of course, there are some kinds of expenses that are higher priorities than other expenses, and sometimes people will prioritize certain kinds of expenses and/or lifestyle choices and they might even start to consider some of their lifestyle choices as if they were basic and/or essential, and sure some of them might be basic/essential and others are merely choices to live more luxuriously.

Emergency funds and reserve funds and savings and investments surely come from discretionary funds.

Sure the discretionary funds could have been used from earlier times to build the various funds, but they would have had come from discretionary funds, unless mistakes were made and funds for expenses are sometimes mistakenly categorized as discretionary funds.

I think that part of the reason that so many guys consider that there is a need for a stream of income to invest into bitcoin is because living expenses continue, and if a person does not continue to earn income, at some point, the discretionary funds, or the emergency funds or the reserve funds will be needed for expenses... and if a guy does not have any of those kinds of funds, then he will be forced to tap into his investments, such as his bitcoin... and there may even be folks who use their bitcoin as an emergency fund, which truly could be the case if such guys do not have various forms of back up funds, besides his bitocin investment.

Quote from: ZeroVinsonN on July 03, 2025, 04:30:24 PM

Quote from: Derekfunds on July 03, 2025, 02:15:43 PM

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I'm confused with what you just said, you need to understand what discretionary funds means money kept aside for your own discretion and this can only be done after all of your bills have been accounted for so the money set aside for emergencies come from your discretionary funds, you can only save from what's left after all necessary bills and payments have been settled and this money that's left is your discretionary funds and it is from this money that you save from for emergencies.
Your emergency fund isn't different from your discretionary fund, it is a part of it, so a part of your discretionary funds can go into bitcoin investment and another part can be saved for emergencies that may come up.

I agree with everything that you said ZeroVinsonN, except you are giving a bit of an impression that each of us classify our basic expenses in ways that are clear and not entangles or if they are clearly able to be locked in, which even that might not be true.

There can be some subjectivity in regards to what are basic expenses, and there can even be flexibility in terms of how they are resolved.

Surely, I am in agreement with your assessment that we do not have discretionary income until we resolve our basic expenses first, so surely you are correct in proclaiming that discretionary income is calculated from whatever is left after the basic expenses have been accounted for. There could be times in which we have certain bills that are due on certain days of the month, and we might not know their exact amounts, so sometimes we might keep extra money in our accounts or in hand so that we will have enough to cover the various bills once they are known, whether we are talking about receiving a utility bill or maybe figuring out the costs of certain food items.. so we might not want to spend from that float money until we are sure that our basic expenses are resolved (or at least completely accounted for).

Let's say for example, I received $1,436 on the first, and so I am expecting to get paid on the 1st of the following month. I carried over $227 from the previous month. I like to try to carry over at least $200 from month to month.. So will try to error between $200 and $300 in my carry over.

So my total is $1,663.

I have various costs through the month, and I know which day of the month they are due.. so I tend to pay them within 5 days of their due date.

Some of the fixed cost items are already known with exactness, and other items are known within a range... The date that they are due (or the absolute latest that they can be paid without a penalty are generally known)

Rent $610 to $660

Utilities: $50 to $120

Food: $150 to $360

Junk food other bad habits: $10 to $40

Transportation: $40 to $70

Phone and other subscriptions: $20 to $40

Entertainment: $30 to $90

savings for other BIGGER ticket items from time to time, furniture, electronics, accessories - $30 - $60

So the lower end of the expected expenses is $980 and the higher end is $1,480, and some of the expenses may already be known or resolved in advance, and others might not be resolved until further down the road into the month. As they are resolved the money comes available. If the income is higher than the $1,436 amount I listed for sure the amount above $1,480 would unambiguously be contained within discretionary income, yet sometimes it might become difficult for guys to dedicate money towards buying bitcoin or even increasing their emergency funds (or other back up funds) unless it is clear that they have discretionary income.

I think that my initial reaction might have had been a bit of a quibble related to your seeming overly assertion that the income and expenses needed to be settled before the money could become discretionary income when the funds might not need to be settled as long as the funds are accounted for and available.