Quote from: _act_ on July 07, 2025, 11:02:23 PM

Is that the reason Lazarus group was successfully also able to launder almost the same amount (that put exch into trouble) through OKX aggregator?

Also know that there are still other exchanges that are not requiring KYC.

With almost everything about fiat that has KYC, did you know that United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC) estimates that up to $5.54 trillion was laundered in 2024? That is around 5% of global GDP.

Quote from: https://www.zigram.tech/resources/money-laundering-statistics-2024

Money laundering remains one of the most pervasive financial crimes worldwide, enabling criminal organizations to legitimize illicit funds. According to estimates from the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC), around 2% to 5% of the world’s GDP is laundered each year. In 2024, this equated to a staggering USD 2.22 trillion to USD 5.54 trillion flowing through the global financial system undetected. Despite aggressive regulatory measures, law enforcement agencies recover only a small fraction of these illicit transactions.

I do not disagree at all – after all, that was what I had meant. Malicious actors will always find a way. I certainly believe it will take a few more years for many to fully comprehend that the only winners in KYC are institutions and actors interested in your data. While you hurt the 'shenanigans' in a way, the definitive loser has always been, and will always be, the ordinary, law-abiding citizen. In fact, KYC might even be used as a reason by some to collect and save customer data. But... if a data breach happens, whoopsie, sorry for that, hehe. Butterfingers!

Could not have said it better:

Quote from: examplens on Today at 08:11:45 AM

The only reason why anyone gives themselves the right to demand KYC and source of funds is because of the simplicity of blocking crypto funds. At the same time, the user does not have many options for appeal or other action against such behavior. Especially when 'smaller' amounts are involved, like your case.

Quote from: Bitcoin_Arena on July 07, 2025, 11:24:50 PM

The witch hunt was the real mission from the word go! How dare they deny their users KYC verification? How dare they refuse to user funds and provide user details to sneaky Government officials?

In the fight against Government intrusion, it can go two ways, either resist till you get caught and end up compromising others users or bow out honorably and live another day to fight but do not give in to the Government demands.

You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain...

Quote from: NotATether on Today at 04:31:56 AM

Oh I totally agree agree with you. Ever since eXch stonewalled me for almost a month when I was trying to get my affiliate payouts - I did get my money eventually but they banned me from the program (and they made a public spectacle of it) - I always had this worry that this sort of stubbornness which I found resembling that of Samourai's devs would lead to their downfall eventually.

Sadly I was proven right, but maybe things would've ended differently for them if they were a little more compromising.

Truth be told, I have heard a lot of backlash about their affiliation program as well. Cannot say what their reason was, in that context, for behaving so unprofessionally.

Quote from: NotATether on Today at 04:31:56 AM

OK, let me tell you a story that happened recently.

I run Talksearch, a search engine for Bitcointalk, and back when the indexing servers were still hosted on Google Cloud, I went to go pay the invoice by loading my linked PayWithUs card. Well at the cryptomus checkout page, after making the transaction I realized that I had sent them money I received from OKmix (directly, from their telegram contact, as a payment for services delivered to my other website, the BitMixList mixer directory), and the payment to Cryptomus was blocked.

Well I said OK, let me send them clean LTC that I obtained from Wizardswap - blocked too.

To "refund" (they would not allow the deposits to go through), they wanted detailed information about the transactions.

Unfortunately I had deleted the Wizardswap exchange details a couple of days prior, so no details available for that one.

So I was thinking OK let me just send them my correspondence with OKmix but of course I know that my service providers do not like my directory service and find it risky.

So if they see anything related to mixers then they will just demand additional information even though it's not connected to the other service I was trying to fund. So to be clear, I never sent them any details. It was not even a lot of money anyway (2x $100), no big deal now that payment processors are trying to play judge.

Or is it??

Would you like to be demanded for your ID and utility bill when using a POS terminal at any store? I'm not talking about regulated industries like weapons and bars, but ANY store. Like Walmart. Or an Apple Store.

No? Ok, well we have our answer then.

I wouldn't like to be demanded for such information either.

Now a legit service has lost my business because their payment processor does not want me as a customer. Do you think it's fair for them?

KYC is a required part of applying for banks, loans, and debit cards (even online). That does not mean we should make it mandatory for all types of payments just because it's crypto.

*edited for spelling

KYC is a good idea; I just believe it is executed terribly and recklessly. Hence, I especially agree with the last part: there is no point in making it mandatory for absolutely everything – unless you are up to something.

A few weeks ago, I sent a few bucks to a known exchanger, the funds got frozen, a refund was not possible. No big deal, that is on me. If I had exchanged them P2P instead, some innocent crypto enthusiast from across the Pacific or from the Middle East would have received them. And it would have been his problem. And I seriously doubt any of the high-level operating con artists would send them to a KYC-enforcing exchanger. Among the actual crypto users, there are simply no winners in this.

The worst part might be that I personally cannot tell whether all of this will worsen in the future, or if we will get lucky and privacy will come back into vogue.

Quote from: LoyceV on Today at 05:54:52 AM

Quote from: s8n on July 07, 2025, 10:47:20 PM

You cannot provide such an exceptional service and then vanish into oblivion.

That's the only way after offering an exceptional privacy service.

Touché