Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 05:14:27 PM

Quote from: Tonimez on Today at 05:52:28 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 12:27:58 AM

ON the other hand, guys feel good about buying dips, and so in that regard, I don't have any problem with guys attempting to establish some kind of systematic buying of the dip as long as they are also buying regularly, and sure they should understand that any money that they are holding on the side to buy dips is also money that could have had been used to buy bitcoin right away rather than trying to coordinate with a dip that might not end up happening.

Bitcoin investment is personal and not everyone would accept another's opinion. Dips are not something you can tell when it would happen, if not, everyone would stack up funds and wait for that time to come. Setting up a defined investment pattern order than dips is a healthy practice. Bitcoin volatility is not limited by any factor and could possibly also dip on your DCA period allowing you same opportunity with those who spent all night monitoring a chart they had no control over. Bitcoin promises to hold a lot of potential for every diligent investors and waiting for dips could make anyone miss out the opportunity as he may not be able to buy at all. Every bitcoin price is a dip and that is what bitcoin investors should understand.

If anyone investor does not control the drive when the dip finally comes, he stands higher chances to run at a loss when he invests beyond his financial capacity which exposes his bitcoin stash to possible premature sales and a resulting loss when his cashflow management is broken. This why we have to be careful at dips because it makes it easier to fail as a bitcoin investor after some dips because some investors go as long as using up their emergency funds to invest while hoping that no emergency situation would occur until they have replaced such funds. So therefore, once we have a working DCA approach, we must be careful about the urge that comes with dips in order not to fail in our bitcoin journey.

A lot of people get too caught up in trying to time the perfect dip, forgetting that the market doesn’t care about our expectations. You touched on something important discipline over emotion. DCA might not be flashy, but it builds consistency, and over time, that consistency beats emotional decisions made in panic or hype. At the end of the day, it's not about catching the bottom, it's about staying in the game long enough to win
You seem to be refusing to deal with one of the dip buying scenarios that I attempt to describe in my post, which is some form of systematic dip buying that is already pre-planned.. and sure of course, it has trade offs and might not even be a good idea, yet it surely is not the less systematic and/or gut feeling dip buying scenario that you seem to be describing and even seeming to be suggesting that I was accepting of such a non-systematic dip buying practice.

Quote from: Cpt_reader on Today at 05:59:39 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 12:27:58 AM

To me, it seems better if guys attempt to try to be purposeful with the extent to which they might be buying extra bitcoin on the dip, since it seems that whenever money is available to buy the dip, that money has either been purposefully set aside for buying the dip or it was a result of some kind of surprise income stream.

Surely, if it is a product of a surprise income stream, I have no problem with the idea of buying the dip with the money, even though there even comes a dilemma if the BTC price happens to be dipping, and then the person buys right away or how does he determine if more dip might come?

I think that if guys already have systems in place, then they are less likely to screw up their cashflow for buying on the dip purposes.

Surely guys who are regularly buying some kind of a budgeted amount of BTC each week, they may also decide to hold back something like 20% of their BTC purchase amount for buying on the dip. So then if they are already in the practice of holding money on the side to buy the dip, then as that money builds up they may well have to consider at which prices are they going to be buying the dip. For example, at a 10% correction, and then every 5% additional dip until running out of dip buying money.

Some guys likely consider that they are going to hold money on the side to buy the dip, and then they are going to attempt to maximize their use of such dip money by figuring out how much of a dip is a good dip, and that just seems like a fantasy to me. I personally think that guys should attempt to mostly be more systematic rather than imagining that they will be able to magically figure out the dip location. That kind of dip buyings seems too much like fantasizing and a form of gambling.

Although I am in favor of buying Bitcoin regularly, I still support dips. Because I can divide my money into three parts, for example, if I want to invest $50/100 every week, then (if it is $50) $20 for regular, $20 for dips, and $10 for emergencies.

First: You messed up in your quoting of my earlier post, so I fixed that above. You could go back and fix your original quoting of my post.

Second. What you describe might work, but really you are dividing 50/50 for buying right away versus buying dips, and that seems way too much to be setting aside for buying dips, especially for anyone early in their bitcoin accumulation phase.

When you guy right away with your DCA every week ($20 in your example), there is is hardly any ambiguity since presumptively you would be buying the $20 worth of bitcoin every week no matter what (as long as you have the $50 available from your discretionary), yet you could still attempt to strategize within the week to buy at cheaper prices - depending on where you are buying (on an exchange presumptively?).

With dip money, your parameters can be quite varied, and if your parameters are somewhat strict, then your dip buying money would build up until the parameters are fulfilled. If your parameters are not very strict on the dip buying then maybe you just end up buying $40 nearly every week since the extra $20 might end up getting used rather than building up each week with a new $20 added to the dip buying fund... so sure, devil is in the details whether you need a 5% dip or 10% dip or some other number before some or all of the money in your dip buying fund would be triggered.

Regarding your emergency funds, presumptively you would be using that money to build and/or add to emergency funds, so if your total expenses per month are somewhere in the ballpark of $400, then you would be working to get your emergency funds up to $1,200 (3 months), yet there may not be any need to grow your emergency funds greater than the amount you put into bitcoin, so with your bitcoin investment rate of perhaps up to $40 per week, it would take you right around 30 weeks to get the amount that you invested into bitcoin up to $1,200, and surely if you already have money in some kind of a cash fund (emergency fund - maybe $300 or so at the time you started your bitcoin investment), then maybe it seems reasonable to add $10 per week to your emergency funds yet at the rate of $10 per week (presuming that you are not using the emergency funds), then it still would take you right around 90 weeks to get your emergency funds up to $1,200, which I would consider a potentially reasonable trade off. even without knowing other potentially relevant details of your finances..

Quote from: Cpt_reader on Today at 05:59:39 AM

Suppose I buy $20 regularly every week, and keep $20 for dips and wait. I set a target like this, if there is a dip, I will buy Bitcoin with this dip money. In this way, I wait for two, four, six months, if desired, I will buy, otherwise I will keep depositing.

Personally, I still consider that it would be better for you to figure out what your dip criteria would be, since if you end up waiting even 6 months, your $20 every week is stacking up and pretty soon you have $520 ($20 X 26) in your dip buying funds, and that money could have had been in bitcoin rather than sitting on the sidelines...and sure, of course, that is your choice to figure out your criteria and the balance that you should be striking.

I have stated many times that guys in their very early stages are likely better off to be buying every single week no matter what, and to be fairly conservative with any money that they are holding back for dip buying.. and even within each week a guy can try to buy the dip within the week but on a certain day if no dip comes he is going to need to just buy with his weekly authorized amount because there is entering into a new week with a new authorized amount coming available for the new week.

Sure, of course, you have to figure out what you believe is the right balance for you, which may or may not end up serving your objectives if you end up making mistakes with it.. but that is on you.

Quote from: Cpt_reader on Today at 05:59:39 AM

And I have regular money, I will keep buying regularly from there. I think this method is good. If I buy with all the dollars at once, it will be seen that when there is a lot of dips, I do not have any dollars left. Then I will feel and regret it, so we need to create a fund called dip to buy Bitcoin. Sometimes there is a market crash, then we can use that emergency money. Or you can use it for any need you have. I think there is no alternative to saving to make your future life beautiful.

In some sense, if you figure out a weekly budget, or even if you tell yourself that you are going to invest $520 no matter what into bitcoin over then next 6 months, then you can divide that into 26 to get $20 per week.. and you can also tell yourself that you are going to set aside $20 per week for buying dip and $10 per week for putting into your emergency fund, and you could have a tentative goal for where you might be in 6 months and then do the same for the next 6 months (or something similar) and perhaps tweaking your approach from time to time, etc etc etc..

You also might have some ideas about your expected budget, yet you also might have some expectations that 2-3 times every year, you run into situations where you end up making (or receiving) some kind of a bonus amount of cash coming in and maybe sometimes that is $200 but it could be as large as $1,200, so even if you know that these are irregular kinds of occasions, yet if you already have bitcoin investment systems in place, then you surely would have some abilities to authorized certain large chunks of the bonus amounts to be invested into bitcoin and/or your buying on dips funds, and/or your emergency funds... So surely, guys who already have bitcoin investing systems and even bitcoin buying prioritizing in place, they may well end up identifying some of their future cashflows as being eligible to be plugged into aspects of their bitcoin buying systems.

Quote from: Samlucky O on Today at 06:21:25 AM

To show you guys how time flies and how bitcoin is gradually moving.
As it march 6 2024 when this thread buy buy buy or sell sell sell was created, the open price of Bitcoin was $66,818.21 and close price was $67,231.45 but today the ATH is now $123k to show how Bitcoin has been doing pretty well. We should take Bitcoin seriously and don't procrastinate because time waits for nobody.

Maybe if a guy invested $2k into bitcoin at the start of the thread, which would have resulted in nearly 0.03 BTC, and then he would have had been investing $100 per week into bitcoin since February 1 until April 11, 2025 (presuming he keeps investing but the website has not been updated).. Then that would have had been an additional $11.5k invested with 0.2663 BTC accumulated, so that would be a total of $13.5k invested and nearly 0.3 BTC accumulated.

By the way currently 0.3 BTC would have a 200-WMA value of $15k and a spot price value of nearly $36k... so surely not a bad place to be for someone who might want to continue to invest at $100 per week and perhaps invest additional amounts from time to time, if his discretionary income permits.

Wealth building can take a decently long time, even with bitcoin, yet a person who might have started to fairly aggressively accumulate bitcoin at the beginning of this thread (even though it was seeming to be close to a then top) would be in a fairly good position right now in terms of his bitcoin stash after a little less than 2.5 years accumulating.

Quote from: Solokan on Today at 07:08:28 AM

Quote from: Jostern on July 17, 2025, 11:45:23 AM

Honestly speaking I don’t think there is anything wrong if an investor choose to invest all his discretionary income into bitcoin, considering that you have taken care of your expenses and you’ve an emergency and reserved funds, if I choose to invest all my discretionary income into bitcoin, instead of using it to extravagance lifestyle of buying cloths and during drinks and cigarettes and clubbing, at this point of my accumulation stage I think there is no need for such lifestyle.

I would prefer using my discretionary income to buy more Bitcoin and be more aggressive instead of using my discretionary income for some unreasonable and unrealistic activities.

If you already have an emergency fund and reserve funds, and so on, it would be great to use them all to buy Bitcoin. Of course, if you use them all to buy BTC, you'll have a lot of BTC and ultimately, you'll reap significant profits in the future. However, if that's your choice, it's certainly extraordinary and wise. Many people use discretionary funds for various purposes, such as buying BTC, partying, and other things. Honestly, I admire you if you're able to use discretionary funds to buy BTC.

But personally, I don't think I can do that. Sometimes, when I have discretionary funds, I prefer to use them to buy BTC, and I also like to use them for other things, such as partying, buying clothes, and so on. I believe entertainment is also very necessary, and having fun is also very important.

You give the advice that a gambler would give, and hopefully we are not treating our bitcoin investment like a form of gambling.

Sure, you can use reserve funds to buy bitcoin, yet buying bitcoin is not an emergency, so use of emergency funds to buy bitcoin is irresponsible and failing to exercise discipline over our own classification of funds.

Surely it could be the case that we have misclassified our emergency funds, and they are really reserve funds, then sure we could use reserve funds for buying bitcoin, yet we still might need to consider how much emergency funds that we minimally need to have in order to not put ourselves in a risky position, and the extent that we do not have sufficient emergency funds, then our bitcoin may well be serving as our emergency funds, which may well end up resulting in our having to use/spend bitcoin at a time that is not completely of our own choosing, since it would be the only funds that we have available.. which surely could be problematic especially if we end up having to sell on some kind of a dip or some kind of a stagnant price location where we should be buying bitcoin rather than selling it.. so sometimes guys who have put themselves in those kinds of situations end up getting greatly recked due to circumstances that might have largely been due to their own causing (their sloppiness).

Don't get me wrong, there could be some rare circumstances where a guy might know that he has good sized income coming in within a week or two, and it is pretty much guaranteed to come through, and he knows that he can replace whatever emergency funds that he uses with such income that is coming in, so in those circumstances he decides to use some portion of his emergency funds to buy bitcoin even though he knows that he is taking chances that his expected income does not come in in the amounts and/or the timeline that he had expected. It ends up being a short-term calculated risk that he ends up considering to be within what he is willing to partake. .and of course, it could result in negative consequences, yet he thinks that the likelihood is pretty small and contained.

Quote from: Tonimez on Today at 09:44:38 AM

Quote from: Nightwatchmare on Today at 08:09:08 AM

Quote from: Jostern on July 17, 2025, 11:45:23 AM

[Edited out]

It would have been problematic if you wanted to invest in bitcoin aggressively with the money you are supposed to use to solve your expenses, but since you want to use all your discretionary income to invest in bitcoin, I don't have any problem with your decision, and it is even good for you to use all your discretionary income to frontload your bitcoin investment since you are no coiner or low coiner rather than using it to live a lavish lifestyle that will expose you to sell your bitcoin investment too early.

Let's get something straight. Discretionary income is the money left after taking care of your present financial responsibilities as at when you receive the payment. This means that you have sorted all the bills, water, light, gasoline and children's food and fees. That money which now remains is what we refer to as your discretionary income.

Discretionary income is then divided into 3 major parts but in no fixed pattern (based on your next payment) into the Emergency funds, back up funds and the investment funds.

Back up funds is a way of describing emergency funds, reserves and float... so emergency funds is a type of back up funds.

Quote from: Tonimez on Today at 09:44:38 AM

The emergency funds goes to any unforeseen circumstances like health challenge or natural disasters

Sure we build up our emergency funds in order to be prepared for any shortage of cash that might come, so if we are investing in bitcoin, then maybe we want to build up our emergency funds to be at least 3 months of our expense at the same time that we might be investing into bitcoin at a similar rate, yet once the emergency funds gets to 3 months of our expenses, we might not necessarily want to build it more, yet we may well expect that we never are going to need to use any of it since it is the last of funds that really shows that we don't have any money left, and guys might get through 20-30 years of investing without ever having to dip into their emergency funds - even though it is there and had been built up and maybe even added to from time to time to account for increases in monthly expenses.

Quote from: Tonimez on Today at 09:44:38 AM

while the backup funds compensate for any price change within the period before your next income.

You seem to be describing back up funds as float funds.

You did not even mention reserve funds, which are largely an extension of emergency funds, but reserve funds do not have any restrictions so they can be used to buy bitcoin or consume or to save for some specific items, and of course they could be used for emergencies and/or unexpected expenses or even to cover up mistakes.

Quote from: Tonimez on Today at 09:44:38 AM

You're left with your investment funds with which you can then channel into your bitcoin stash by possibly the DCA approach. This is why the discretionary income is the best source of investment funds.

You seem to be talking about discretionary funds, yet surely if the discretionary funds are not used right away to buy things or to invest, then they might be considered to be in reserve funds.

But yeah with bitcoin once the money is put into bitcoin, the general idea would be that the money is locked up for 4-10 years or longer, so we have to make sure that we are using money that we do not need for 4-10 years or longer - unless we might do some spend and replace if we might be wanting to support the use of bitcoin.

Quote from: Tonimez on Today at 09:44:38 AM

Hence, investing all your discretionary income also means tampering with your emergency funds

That is not true. Discretionary funds are generally considered to be money that comes in each month or each pay period, and it can be used to buy things, invest or to get put into back up funds.. once the money is in the back up funds, whether emergency funds or reserve funds, then it could be taken back out, and surely many of us suggest to not use emergency funds unless you run out of all other money... even though surely there could be various places that money is kept and some locations might be more liquid than others, yet surely if some kind of funds end up being less liquid than expected, then a person might have to draw from other locations, so there can be questions regarding how to hold funds and how much cash to have versus cash in banks versus cash that might be held in other forms, and surely there can be some forms of cash that might be accessible within a few days or even a few weeks, and so how liquid it is can be a fact or in terms of from where money is drawn and how much to keep in those places.. ..

Regarding the float funds, I consider them to be extra funds that might be kept when certain expenses might not be known exactly, so we might have some extra money for food bills and utilities, maybe $200 extra, but then once they are resolved, and if we don't use the whole $200.. then the remaining would go into discretionary funds... and so let's say if we resolve our food bills and utilities and we ended up using $150 of the float, so then the remaining $50 would go in to discretionary income once the expenses are resolved/clarified with certainty.

Quote from: Tonimez on Today at 09:44:38 AM

which would expose your bitcoin stash to vulnerable situations when they arise. This is just from my little knowledge about discretionary income and I know it may be of help to your prior knowledge.

Of course if we use up all of our various funds and then we tap into our emergency funds, then we have no other funds protecting our bitcoin, so our bitcoin would then be the next thing to use. The longer that guys are investing and engaging in strong cashflow management practices, the more likely they will learn how to hold funds in various ways in which they intuitively know which funds to spend from first, second and third and come to realize if they are getting low on funds they may well want to start to exercise greater self-imposed restrictions in order to not overly deplete the various kinds of back up funds that they have and perhaps to not even coming close to needing to touch any of their emergency funds for any reason other than an actual emergency or some crazy ass unexpected expense that they have that was way outside of what they expected to be likely or possible. By the way, many folks may well know that they have lines of credit that are lined up, so that if they have some very bad situations, they may well be able to quickly tap into some lines of credit that they have, so guys account for their own particular circumstances when considering pecking order of various funds that they have available to them.

Quote from: Tonimez on Today at 09:44:38 AM

Quote from: Barikui1 on Today at 09:18:15 AM

No, I don't think that using your discretionary income to live a lavish lifestyle will compel you to sell too early, what actually makes you to sell prematurely is when you fall to put your emergency and reserve funds in place, and then emergency struck, that's what makes you sell too early even when it's not your intention.
Then as for the aspect of investing all your discretionary income, though it's not terribly bad, but I sees it as more problematic to you because their are so many other things you wouldn't be able to do due to the fact that you don't have the spare cash to available again. To me Bitcoin investment is something you do base on your own financial strength, not by stretching your finances that might be problematic in the future if proper money management skills is not being utilized.

Proper money management also known as Cashflow management or Financial intelligence is very important when it comes with what we use our money to do. Your Discretionary income is your hope of tomorrow after your payday. How would anyone cope after using all his discretionary income to invest??

A person who has various back up funds is in a strong position to use 100% of his discretionary funds to buy bitcoin, yet usually guys will choose to have other money available so they are not going to use 100% of their discretionary funds, unless maybe they know that they are going to be paid again within a few days, so they don't have any issue using all of their discretionary funds to buy bitcoin.. including that they have their various back up funds.

You Tonimez seems to be classifying all back up funds as if they were discretionary funds, and sure even though the funds were built from discretionary fund money, we do not generally use the term discretionary funds to describe all of the extra funds (various back up funds) even though they are all available to be used if the person wants to use them all for buying bitcoin or for whatever other purpose that might not have had been within their original intent. In that regard, we can do what we want and even violate our own previously established boundaries.

Quote from: Tonimez on Today at 09:44:38 AM

It is assumed that on receiving your pay, you attend to your basic responsibilities first. Your life and wellbeing is also part of your responsibilities. After this, your remaining money is what we refer to as discretionary income and that's where your emergency funds and backup funds come from. You have to be clear about this terms first. Sometimes we fall victim of assumption, in that as long as we have handled our basic current responsibilities, no such emergency would arise until our next payday. This is not right as it endangers our bitcoin stash and may lead to premature sales.

You seem to be the one convoluting terms, and even the ideas of what are basic expenses versus what are discretionary expenses can be defined differently by people in terms of their establishing what is their discretionary income or their discretionary funds. Surely some of the ideas overlap, yet we still should try to be careful in terms of our own talking about these matters, since as you suggest, sometimes guys might use terms in confusing ways, and even you seem to be engaging in such confusing frameworks...even though you seem to also understand a lot of the ideas too...but you are likely causing confusion in some of your descriptions as I attempted to address in my above response.

Quote from: sotelorene on Today at 04:47:07 PM

Quote from: Miles2006 on Today at 03:46:07 PM

Quote from: Bitcoin.com97 on Today at 01:51:59 AM

Quote from: Jostern on July 17, 2025, 11:45:23 AM

Honestly speaking I don’t think there is anything wrong if an investor choose to invest all his discretionary income into bitcoin, considering that you have taken care of your expenses and you’ve an emergency and reserved funds, if I choose to invest all my discretionary income into bitcoin, instead of using it to extravagance lifestyle of buying cloths and during drinks and cigarettes and clubbing, at this point of my accumulation stage I think there is no need for such lifestyle.

I would prefer using my discretionary income to buy more Bitcoin and be more aggressive instead of using my discretionary income for some unreasonable and unrealistic activities.

Investing aggressively is good but to an extent, just as you have said if you have taken care of all your expenses and still got an emergency and reserve funds them you are good to go , you can invest aggressively into Bitcoin and stack up your portfolio instead of wasting your discretionary income in an unnecessary things that you may look back and regret tomorrow, but since Bitcoin is a long term investment I would advice you invest with your discretionary but not all so it won’t result to you selling it , you can just invest little by little and before you know it , you have got a good portfolio.

A person level of aggressiveness all depends on the amount of discretionary income available, they can’t go outside the line meanwhile if the backup fund is set it’s a free will to invest aggressively but, make sure you’re not doing too much when you need to save up more emergency and reserve funds alongside investing. One thing about buying aggressively it must not always be regular, honestly we have different financial crisis and yours is different from mine or unexpected situation just comes up reason we should invest knowing our capacity to further investing for a long period of time like 10 years plan.

Yes, I totally agree with you agreessive investment should not be done often because there is every possibility that you will run out of funds and once an Investor run out of funds it is going to be a very big problem. The only thing that should be carry out or done regularly or often is our DCA method while agreessive investment should be done once in awhile when we have saved up something big that will help us take advantage of the market. Anyone investor who doesn't understand this word investing agreessive might exceed their limit and one thing about investment is that once you exceed what you are suppose to..., you will see the consequences but a good investor can reduce the consequences by taking necessary actions.

I think that any of us who are trying to figure out how aggressive we can be in regards to our bitcoin investment without over doing it, then we should first be conscious of how strong is our cashflow management systems and practices. if we have strong emergency funds, such at 3 months of expenses, and perhaps a little bit of reserves (even a couple of weeks), we are likely in a position to be as aggressive as we are able to be, which would be investing 100% of our discretionary income into bitcoin. If se make mistakes then we have reserve funds to fall back upon without having to tap into our emergency funds. Surely in most cases we are not going to want to invest 100% of our discretionary income into investing into bitcoin because we likely have other things going on in our lives and we want to have some income available to support other discretionary expenses, yet our level of aggressiveness or whimpiness is a matter of personal choice, and if we are largely in touch with our finances and our psychology, we should be able to figure out a level of aggressiveness that is sufficiently strong, yet without overdoing it... which is likely a good thing for anyone who is in their earliest of years of BTC accumulation, and even potentially anyone who has invested less than 1 years of their income (or their expenses) into bitcoin... and yeas, these are personal choices regarding when any of us might choose to either ramp up or to lessen our levels of bitcoin accumulation aggressiveness.