Quote from: SN347 on Today at 08:39:56 PM

Quote from: polymerbit on Today at 07:42:00 PM

The first time I held fake CAS holograms in my hand was in 2022/3. But the way Mikes' holograms were made used some very clever security techniques. Extremely advanced for 2011 and still easily hold up today. The only way to truly copy the hologram would be to have the "master". The physical engravings have encoded info above 10k DPI (probably E BEAM tech so at least 100k DPI) and can't truly be copied to the level where an auction house would struggle to know the difference.

With EBAM, you can shrink an extremely detailed map of the moon to the size of 1cm (https://www.optaglio.cz/en/e-beam-lithography). No scanner on earth could replicate it. Not to mention that engravings are actually 3D. So you'd need to get the right angle of the curves and even the varying thicknesses. Good luck with that.

Document security is typically split into four levels, with forensic being shared with the auction house. The fourth level is only known to the manufacturer.

On top of that, the consistency of the materials and chemical make up create a sort of signature. Like artwork that is worth millions is verified, so can Cas coins.

For example, each Polymerbit can be traced down to the printer, country and day it was made.

I can say with confidence that we've been researching these security risks for obvious reasons. I'm not overly concerned for the future of collectibles.

What I knew so far was that DEFCON hackers had succeeded in removing and replace holograms from the 2012 coins without leaving any visible traces https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2013/08/13/defcon-hackers-crack-physical-bitcoin-casascius-coins

Even if it’s really hard or nearly impossible, we gotta be ready for new fakes anytime.. do you know what series those fake holograms are from and are there any pics of the fake holos Huh

Visible traces are a bit of a misnomer. There's an injection site for the adhesive neutralizer. While it could be argued to look like wear and tear to the naked eye at a quick glance, the valuations of these coins have now exceeded normal circulation parameters and certainly require authentication.

Closer examination is generally conducted by microscope under such circumstances. Perforations cannot be hidden. Even with attempting to fuse the plastic together, it'll warp and the structure will be visible in the right wave lengths. Traces of this adhesive removal chemical will also be detectable.

You may find this thread interesting. I understand why you may feel there's cause for alarm, but the amount of experts involved today reduce the risk.

As with normal numismatics, fakes have existed for millennia. Genuine coins are still identified and generally don't lose their value even with this risk.

As with anything valuable, the sellers provenance is important... and so is forensic verification.

Here's the thread you may find interesting.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3257048.200

I hope this helps you feel less concerned about the risks.