Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 03:26:56 AM

Quote from: yixichloro2xx on July 20, 2025, 08:17:02 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on July 20, 2025, 07:37:51 PM

[edited out]

That’s a very good breakdown. A lot of people don’t realize how their UTXOs can start to stack up and spread over time, especially if they have been using Bitcoin for a while across different cycles. What you explained is exactly how it happens..... one transaction here, another there, and before you know it, you have several small UTXOs in different wallets.

I also like the point about keeping some wallets as intermediate ones. It makes a lot of sense to have levels between hot and cold storage, depending on how often you plan to use the coins. Keeping track of all this might seem like a lot, but if someone is serious about holding long term, this kind of planning will really help later....

Yes. It is a good habit to keep track of wallets, especially the ones with larger transactions connected with them... And it can take a bit of time to figure out some organized way to keep track..... maybe keeping track of the colder storage or medium storage might be more important, and maybe the hot wallets might have more transactions and harder to keep track, so guys have to figure out if they are able to keep track of everything or just the transactions within certain wallets.

Some people suggest that the tax treatment of transactions to treat them as capital rather than currency can cause some accounting burdens which can disincentivize spending bitcoin or conducting smaller transactions... yet surely if a wallet is divided into accounts, then at least the accounts could be of certain categories including if you have an exchange that you use, then you might send all of the transaction from that exchange to the same account, so then at least you know that the transactions are related to that exchange within that account.

organizing UTXOs across wallet types can get messy over time, especially when you are active or have a mix of hot, medium, and cold storage. It is good to dobasic labeling or categorizing wallets by purpose which helps a lot in reducing confusion later, especially when you need to trace transactions months or years down the line.

And yeah, the capital gains treatment does add a layer of friction not just psychologically but practically too. It makes sense why many prefer to HODL rather than spend, even when they might want to. But having that structured system, even just keeping notes per account or wallet
can ease that future accounting headache and keep your mind clear for what really matters to stacking and securing sats.

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 03:26:56 AM

Quote from: yixichloro2xx on July 20, 2025, 08:17:02 PM

It’s small details like these that really show the maturity of a Bitcoin user. You are not just holding, you are managing your stack with long term clarity. Thanks for sharing that, it reinforces why thinking in UTXOs, not just BTC balances, matters a lot......

Some people don't even know what UTXOs are, since they keep their coins on exchanges, so there can be some value in learning about UTXOs, which comes from experience and trying things out.. which might scare people away from bitcoin since they might find it confusing to learn about wallets and make sure that they don't screw up their security and/or their privacy... and like we said bitcoin is not by default private if it is being used in non-private ways, and it is hard to imagine that someone would think that their coins are secure if they are being held through a third party (exchange). Don't get me wrong. Starting out in bitcoin might require starting out with an account on an exchange prior to figuring out some ways to self-custody.

A lot of newcomers are introduced to Bitcoin through exchanges like me for example,and for many, that feels like the entire Bitcoin experience. But the real journey begins when they step outside of custodial platforms and start learning how Bitcoin actually works, things like UTXOs, wallets, private keys, and privacy practices.

Understanding UTXOs, for instance, opens your eyes to how Bitcoin is not just a balance like in a bank account it is more like handling digital cash with individual pieces that you can manage and track. It is this deeper layer that gives users both responsibility and freedom, but like you said, it can feel overwhelming at first.

Still, as people get more involved, curiosity and necessity often push them to self custody. And that is where true Bitcoin ownership begins....when you are no longer trusting a third party but taking control of your own keys. It might be a steep learning curve, but it isa worthy one for anyone serious about financial sovereignty.

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 03:26:56 AM

Quote from: yixichloro2xx on July 20, 2025, 08:17:02 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on July 20, 2025, 07:37:51 PM

Quote from: yixichloro2xx on July 20, 2025, 04:59:16 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on July 20, 2025, 04:16:19 PM

There can be situations when people end up sharing too much, and even if I do a bitcoin transaction with a friend in 2017, yet if I do not move the change address, the transaction in 2017 might have been worth a couple thousand dollars (1 or 2 bitcoin) and maybe my change was a couple thousand dollars (1 or 2 bitcoin), but then that balance of 1 or 2 bitcoin is now worth way more than what it was worth in 2017, and many folks do not even have 1 or 2 bitcoin, even though prior to 2017, we might have had been transacting with several bitcoin at at time, especially if we might have made some large purchases with bitcoin, we may have sent several bitcoin for a transaction that was a couple thousand dollars.

This really highlights how drastically Bitcoin’s value has evolved over time. What used to feel like casual transactions like sending 1 or 2 BTC for basic purchases now seem like moves worth a small fortune. It’s crazy to think that something as simple as not moving your change from a 2017 transaction could mean you are still sitting on a huge balance today without realizing it....This is why Bitcoin truly rewards time and patience and why being cautious with past addresses and transaction history is more important than ever.

Guys who have been in bitcoin for a while have these kinds of stories, including that in 2015 (when BTC prices were around $250) they might have had like a few thousand dollars on some hot wallet (and maybe it was too much?) and maybe they had $15k or $20k in some wallet that they considered a bit more secure, but surely not totally secure.

But then when bitcoin prices went up to $19,666 within 2 years, they might not have had kept their security at the place that it should have had been, so then the few thousand in the hot wallet might have had turned into $100k or $200k... .. and the larger amounts of $15k to $20k might have turned into more than $1 million. .. since the price rise was around 78x in about 2 years.

Similar things happened in 2021, yet the price rise was ONLY around 16.5x in 2.5-ish years... so 2021 was a bit less extreme as compared with 2017.. and surely the rise in 2013 was even greater,.. since it was a rise of more than 200x in the period from 2012 to the 2013 peak.

Yeah, stories like this are part of what makes Bitcoin so wild and interesting. Back then, a few thousand dollars in a wallet didn’t feel like much, but once the price shoots up 70x or more, that same wallet suddenly feels like a vault. It is easy to forget how fast things can change and how fast we can get caught off guard if we are not managing risk properly.......

Yep.. We have to manage it, and perhaps also not be tempted to show all of our friends how $3k turned into $210k.. Even though it is so tempting to want to do it, especially with close friends and/or family.

That kind of growth can be exciting, almost surreal turning $3k into $210k is life changing, and naturally you will want to share it with those closest to you. But in reality, sharing those numbers can open the door to a lot of unexpected outcomes, jealousy, pressure, unrealistic expectations, or even security risks.

It is better to stay humble, keep stacking quietly, and let your long terrm discipline speak for itself later on. Sometimes the best way to help close friends or family is by guiding them toward understanding Bitcoin rather than showing off your results. That way, they can build their conviction and stack on their own terms.

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 03:26:56 AM

Quote from: yixichloro2xx on July 20, 2025, 08:17:02 PM

A lot of people learned the hard way that security should grow with your stack. What felt secure enough at $250 per BTC didn’t hold up when BTC hit $19k or more. And yeah, while 2021 didn’t feel as crazy as 2017 or 2013, the gains were still life changing for many. These cycles really do teach us, not just about holding, but also about how to stay prepared when success shows up faster than expected.......

Even with myself. I had been through the downside of the 2013 cycle and both the upside and downside of the 2017 cycle, but even in 2019-2021 when the BTC price went up from $4,200 in April 2019 to $64k in April 2021 and then it dropped to $30k in summer 2021 and returned to $69k in November 2021, there can be some periods of surprise to have some wallets go up somewhere in the ballpark of 16x from the bottom to the top.

Even some folks in this particular cycle might have had some coins that they bought or held in November/December 2022 that were in the $16k to $20k prices, and even now when we had BTC prices go up to $120k, so then those coins had gone up 6x to 7x, which is also nothing to sneeze at, and there are folks who never had experienced 2x or 3x in value appreciating through their lives and then they are able to personally experience 6x/7x price appreciation in the past 2.5 years.. and if a guy is still accumulating he might not know what to do. If a guy had done most of his accumulation prior to October 2023, he might just feel so amazed to be on the journey, if we might consider the possibility that some guys had gotten enough BTC, yet there are way more guys who are still needing to accumulate and not to get thrown off by past bitcoin price performance in regards to their need to keep accumulating bitcoin no matter the price so that maybe they will be in a better place 4-10 years or more down the road.

One of the key takeaways from your experience is how different each cycle feels, even if the patterns rhyme, the emotions, surprises, and outcomes can still catch people off guard, whether they are new or seasoned.

Seeing 6x–7x gains in just a couple of years is lifechanging, especially for people whohave never experienced anything close to that before. But like you rightly pointed out, those who are still accumulating should not let past performance paralyze them. Every cycle brings new chances, and what is more important than price is positioning and mindset.

Those who accumulated before October 2023 are probably feeling validated now but it doesn't mean the window is closed. Bitcoin is long term, and the real magic tends to show up years down the line, not just one or two. Accumulating consistently, staying humble, and keeping your strategy in place is how you position yourself to benefit from whatever future upside may come, whether it is 4 years or 10 years down the road...

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 03:26:56 AM

Quote from: yixichloro2xx on July 20, 2025, 08:17:02 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on July 20, 2025, 07:37:51 PM

[quote

Quote from: yixichloro2xx on July 20, 2025, 04:59:16 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on July 20, 2025, 04:16:19 PM

This cycle is the beginning for some, and so yeah, anyone new to bitcoin likely will need to spend a whole cycle or a few cycles building up his bitcoin stash, and it tends to take a decent amount of time to build a bitcoin stash, even if a person is relatively focused on accumulating bitcoin.

Many people underestimate the time and consistency it actually takes to build a meaningful Bitcoin position. It is not just about catching the perfect dip or riding one bull cycle, it is about developing the mindset to accumulate steadily, even when the hype dies down. Every cycle teaches something new, and those who stay committed through the quiet phases are usually the ones who end up with the strongest hands and the biggest rewards in the long run. This current cycle could be the proving ground for a lot of new entrants.....

There could be a lot of guys who don't necessarily want to get focused on making money, but then when they figure out bitcoin is a great place to put any extra money that they are able to generate, then they may well become motivated to make more money and even save more money by spending less, and then they suddenly feel that they have identified a place in which they are able to put their extra money and not feel like it is losing value and/or feel that they have to spend it right away in order to preserve its purchasing power.

A lot of people don’t start out thinking about wealth building or financial discipline, but once they understand Bitcoin potential, everything changes..... Suddenly, every bit of extra cash feels like an opportunity rather than something to spend immediately. It flips the script, instead of money burning a hole in your pocket, you start seeing sats as something worth stacking and protecting.
Bitcoin quietly trains people to value their time and money more and that’s something no fiat system really encourages.......

Some people might come to bitcoin thinking about it as a possible way to trade, but then if they are paying attention and studying bitcoin, they may well come to reasonable conclusions that bitcoin is not a trade, but instead a long term play in which there will need to be a continuing and ongoing accumulating of bitcoin through buying, especially in the early years of being involved in bitcoin.

Many folks enter Bitcoin with a short term, trader mindset thinking they will time the market, flip profits, and move on. But once they start digging deeper, understanding the fixed supply, the halving cycles, the monetary properties, and how it fits into the broader financial system, the mindset often shifts.

Bitcoin reveals itself more as a long term wealth preservation tool than a short term trade. The more someone studies it, the more they realize that stacking and holding over time,especially in the early years of their journey is where the real edge is. Trading might give you quick wins or losses, but steady accumulation builds lasting financial strength, especially when you zoom out and let time do the heavy lifting.

Quote from: Tungbulu on Today at 04:03:03 AM

I also share in your thoughts about tracking of wallets being a good habit, particularly those wallets with huge or bigger transactions. And it may potentially take some time to figure out an organised way to effectively do this. But focusing on tracking cold or medium storage might be more appropriate, since hot storage wallets may actually have an endless and ton of transactions, making it almost impossible to keep track of. Guys do need to actually figure out what's manageable for them, whether it's to track everything or just to focus certain wallets, it's entirely up to them to decide.
I also think the tax treatment stuff you mentioned above makes a lot of sense too. When guys treat Bitcoin as capital rather than just a mere currency can potentially create some accounting headaches, and this could also disincentivize the use of Bitcoin for smaller transactions, like using Bitcoin to pay for goods and services. Also, I feel it's also a smart move to divide a wallet into accounts for different categories, like one account for transactions from a particular Wallet, as it can be quite an effective way to keep things pretty much organised. This way, you'll be able to know that the transactions in that account are actually related to that particular exchange.

Trying to keep track of every little transaction, especially from a hot wallet with constant activity, can quickly become overwhelming and honestly unnecessary unless you are doing detailed audits. Prioritizing cold or medium storage where you hold your more significant long term stacks just makes sense, since those wallets typically don’t move much and are easier to monitor.

And yes, the whole tax angle is a major factor too. Once Bitcoin starts getting treated as capital for tax purposes, the idea of spending sats casually becomes less attractive due to the reporting burdens. That alone pushes many to think more about HODLing rather than spending.

Using separate wallets or accounts for specific purposes like separating DCA buys, exchange withdrawals, or spending wallets also brings clarity and reduces mistakes. It is a kind of self discipline that becomes second nature over time and helps ensure that your Bitcoin strategy stays clean, secure, and well-documented especially as your stack grows.