Quote from: kanftka on Today at 05:26:36 AM

Quote from: Bluedrem on Today at 02:13:11 AM

[edited out]

Still, I respect that you’re open to having those conversations. Helping others learn and build their own understanding is a good way to support them. But TBH, most of them won’t give full attention to Bitcoin long term investment, they’ll prefer other form of investment out there than going solid on Bitcoin.. Jst speaking from my little experience with people..

People are fairly easily distracted into shitcoining and/or trading, and surely people can become a detriment onto themselves and their own best interests by failing/refusing to figure out and understand bitcoin first. Some will learn how to focus faster than others, yet sometimes it can be difficult to help others to help themselves.

Quote from: Tmoonz on Today at 09:47:43 AM

Quote from: Derekfunds on Today at 09:23:11 AM

Quote from: Jostern on Today at 06:56:37 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 03:26:56 AM

Anyone who is a no coiner or a low coiner has to get started buying bitcoin in order to be prepared for up.. Otherwise they are not prepared for up.

And yeah, it could take 4-10 years or longer for someone to stack enough bitcoin to start to feel comfortable that he has enough or more than enough.

Even though measurements can be made along the path, sometimes the first several years can feel that progress is being made slowly, even though there are some folks who are able to front load their investment into bitcoin in their beginning years of investing into it.

You’re absolutely right, as a low coiner it’s quite mandatory for me to start buying Bitcoin as much as possible as I can and there is no reason to be hesitating because there is up in the price of Bitcoin instead I will have to continue buying consistently, it’s wise to be prepared before starting to invest in bitcoin, when I mean prepared for someone that wants to hold for a longer term plans we should be aware for the up and downs as well, I plan to hodl for a very long term of 4-10 years and more to be able to stack a lot of bitcoin for someone who is a low income earner and a little discretionary income to buy from each and every week or monthly, and it’s better to take every opportunities that comes when accumulating bitcoin.

The word mandatory is wrong perhaps the right word to use should be necessary and not mandatory, anyone who is determined and interested in Bitcoin investment would know it is important to accumulate regularly using a method that will suit them depending on there source of income and the level of their discretionary. Bitcoin is volatile yes but as an investor with long term vision, the ups and downs or the volatility of Bitcoin should not be a problem as Bitcoin will always do better in the long term. It is only traders that should be weary of the market movement as they can be cut short by the market.

There is nothing wrong with the choice of the word mandatory by josterm, at first he has already seen the whole process as a necessity and he intentionally decided to make it mandatory to himself by himself to be buying Bitcoin consistently just as he can afford, the word mandatory in this regards for me sounds imperative for a more discipline and focus on achieving his aims and objectives including improving in all various aspects of ensuring everything is working towards his achievements for a sustainable investment process.

A self-imposed mandatory is largely stating priorities, yet investing in bitcoin still comes after taking care of basic expenses, so sometimes folks use a less accurate term to describe something that is a high priority to them and they choose to make it a high priority..

Quote from: yixichloro2xx on Today at 09:52:04 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 04:51:00 AM

Quote from: yixichloro2xx on Today at 04:05:55 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 03:26:56 AM

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That kind of growth can be exciting, almost surreal turning $3k into $210k is life changing, and naturally you will want to share it with those closest to you. But in reality, sharing those numbers can open the door to a lot of unexpected outcomes, jealousy, pressure, unrealistic expectations, or even security risks.

I am mentioning something that could happen, if a guy had $3k worth of bitcoin in mid-2015 when BTC prices were $250, which would subsequently play out like this for 12 BTC.
December 2017 - BTC price $19,666 - 12 BTC value = $235,992
December 2018 - BTC price $3,800 - 12 BTC value = $45,600
February 2020 - BTC price $9,500 - 12 BTC value = $114k
March 2020 - BTC price $3,800 - 12 BTC value = $45,600
April 2021 - BTC price $63k - 12 BTC value = $756k
July 2021 - BTC price $31.5k - 12 BTC value = $378k
April 2021 - BTC price $69k - 12 BTC value = $828k
November 2022 - BTC price $15,479 - 12 BTC value = $185,748
July 14, 2025 - BTC price $123,236 - 12 BTC value = $1,478,832
Lots of fluctuation for the 12 BTC over the past 10 years even though starting out with a $3k value and now having close to $1.5 million spot price, and even $602.3k for the 200-WMA, which I would suggest that 12 BTC has a current sustainable withdrawal rate of $60k per year.

This really puts into perspective how much long term conviction pays off in Bitcoin. Turning $3k into 12 BTC back in 2015 might have seemed like a gamble to many at the time, but looking at how that value has evolved through multiple market cycles shows the strength of patience and belief in the asset. What’s more interesting is that despite wild volatility, the trajectory remains up over time. The idea of 12 BTC sustaining a $60k/year withdrawal rate today just shows how wealth preservation and growth is possible with Bitcoin if managed right. A powerful reminder why HODLing through chaos still makes sense.

I personally prefer a buy and keep on buying approach rather than buying a set amount and then just sitting on it, even though the example shows the power of just one portion of the buying of 12 BTC to have several ups and downs at various points along the way, and yeah, at this time to reach a power of having a $60k per year withdrawal rate, and if the 12 BTC continues to sit, the withdrawal rate is quite likely to double (or more) within the next 4 years. On the other hand, if the 12 BTC is started to be withdrawn from then it will depend on how fast it is drawn down upon to figure out if the total value of the BTC will go up or down in light of the withdrawal rate.. yet a withdrawal rate that starts out at $60k per year right now, is quite likely going to be able to sustain such $60k per year withdrawal rate perpetually into the future, including accounting for a 7% per year debasement of the dollar. So this year is $60k, and next year would be $64.2k and year 3 would be $68.7 and year four would be $73.5k etc etc etc.

Quote from: yixichloro2xx on Today at 09:52:04 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 04:51:00 AM

Quote from: yixichloro2xx on Today at 04:05:55 AM

It is better to stay humble, keep stacking quietly, and let your long terrm discipline speak for itself later on. Sometimes the best way to help close friends or family is by guiding them toward understanding Bitcoin rather than showing off your results. That way, they can build their conviction and stack on their own terms.

Easier said than done.

Let me know if you have any success persuading friends and/or family to get to know bitcoin and to actually take action that focuses on investing into bitcoin rather than shitcoins and/or trading.

Yeah, it’s definitely not easy. Most of them just want quick flips or think Bitcoin already pumped. I just let them be until they are ready to listen.

Yep. there is ONLY so much any of us can do to help people to help themselves.

Quote from: yixichloro2xx on Today at 09:52:04 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 04:51:00 AM

Quote from: yixichloro2xx on Today at 04:05:55 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 03:26:56 AM

Quote from: yixichloro2xx on July 20, 2025, 08:17:02 PM

A lot of people learned the hard way that security should grow with your stack. What felt secure enough at $250 per BTC didn’t hold up when BTC hit $19k or more. And yeah, while 2021 didn’t feel as crazy as 2017 or 2013, the gains were still life changing for many. These cycles really do teach us, not just about holding, but also about how to stay prepared when success shows up faster than expected.......

Even with myself. I had been through the downside of the 2013 cycle and both the upside and downside of the 2017 cycle, but even in 2019-2021 when the BTC price went up from $4,200 in April 2019 to $64k in April 2021 and then it dropped to $30k in summer 2021 and returned to $69k in November 2021, there can be some periods of surprise to have some wallets go up somewhere in the ballpark of 16x from the bottom to the top.

Even some folks in this particular cycle might have had some coins that they bought or held in November/December 2022 that were in the $16k to $20k prices, and even now when we had BTC prices go up to $120k, so then those coins had gone up 6x to 7x, which is also nothing to sneeze at, and there are folks who never had experienced 2x or 3x in value appreciating through their lives and then they are able to personally experience 6x/7x price appreciation in the past 2.5 years.. and if a guy is still accumulating he might not know what to do. If a guy had done most of his accumulation prior to October 2023, he might just feel so amazed to be on the journey, if we might consider the possibility that some guys had gotten enough BTC, yet there are way more guys who are still needing to accumulate and not to get thrown off by past bitcoin price performance in regards to their need to keep accumulating bitcoin no matter the price so that maybe they will be in a better place 4-10 years or more down the road.

One of the key takeaways from your experience is how different each cycle feels, even if the patterns rhyme, the emotions, surprises, and outcomes can still catch people off guard, whether they are new or seasoned.

Seeing 6x–7x gains in just a couple of years is lifechanging, especially for people whohave never experienced anything close to that before. But like you rightly pointed out, those who are still accumulating should not let past performance paralyze them. Every cycle brings new chances, and what is more important than price is positioning and mindset.

Those who accumulated before October 2023 are probably feeling validated now but it doesn't mean the window is closed. Bitcoin is long term, and the real magic tends to show up years down the line, not just one or two. Accumulating consistently, staying humble, and keeping your strategy in place is how you position yourself to benefit from whatever future upside may come, whether it is 4 years or 10 years down the road...

Anyone who is a no coiner or a low coiner has to get started buying bitcoin in order to be prepared for up.. Otherwise they are not prepared for up.

And yeah, it could take 4-10 years or longer for someone to stack enough bitcoin to start to feel comfortable that he has enough or more than enough.

Even though measurements can be made along the path, sometimes the first several years can feel that progress is being made slowly, even though there are some folks who are able to front load their investment into bitcoin in their beginning years of investing into it.

Many underestimate how critical just getting started is whether you are a no coiner or still working your way up the ladder, the worst position to be in during a parabolic run is to be unprepared. Bitcoin doesn't wait, and those who delay stacking often find themselves chasing green candles instead of calmly riding the wave.

And yes, the early years can feel slow and even discouraging at times, especially if you are using DCA modestly. But the compounding effect of consistent stacking paired with Bitcoin's asymmetric upside can be incredible over a 4-10 year horizon. Frontloading is great if one can afford it, but for most, the key is simply staying the course and continuing to accumulate. Time and conviction do the rest.

Putting buying systems in place might also help to establish additional buying opportunities down the road. There may be folks who have mediocre pay and mediocre cashflow management practices, yet getting started in bitcoin can help them to improve their mediocre practices into something more robust and they might improve their cashflows and even better identify times in which they receive some extra money and then since they have a bitcoin buying system in place they are already prepared to buy more bitcoin when that extra money comes to them.

Another thing, as you mentioned, they likely will find themselves in a better place not to panic or FOMO based on subsequent BTC price moves, since they already have a system for continued buying in place in case the BTC price goes down, and if the BTC price goes up, they realize that they had already been stacking as much BTC as they can, so they are benefiting from the BTC price going up, even though their future purchases are going to cost them more (or at least they won't get as many satoshis for each quantity of dollars/fiat that they put in).

Quote from: SmartCharpa on Today at 11:01:35 AM

Quote from: yixichloro2xx on Today at 04:05:55 AM

That kind of growth can be exciting, almost surreal turning $3k into $210k is life changing, and naturally you will want to share it with those closest to you. But in reality, sharing those numbers can open the door to a lot of unexpected outcomes, jealousy, pressure, unrealistic expectations, or even security risks.

It is better to stay humble, keep stacking quietly, and let your long terrm discipline speak for itself later on. Sometimes the best way to help close friends or family is by guiding them toward understanding Bitcoin rather than showing off your results. That way, they can build their conviction and stack on their own terms.

Sure, turning a small amount like $3k into $210k is a big success, and I understand why someone would be excited to share it; however, not everyone around you will be happy for you; some may just jealousy you or even try to put you under unnecessary pressure, expecting you to help them or show them how you did it. That kind of attention can sometimes be dangerous.

Yep. People will definitely have suggestions regarding the various ways that you can spend your money in ways that they consider to be meaningful, and part of the reason that you have the extra money and "gainz" in bitcoin had been because you were not just going to sell random amounts merely because it happened to go up.

Quote from: SmartCharpa on Today at 11:01:35 AM

That's why it is good to stay low, continue to grow quietly, and allow your results to speak for themselves over time, if someone close to you wants to learn, you may assist them in learning the process from the beginning instead of showing them what you have gained. This way, they will learn to grow in their way and with a good mindset. There is no need to make noise, just stay focused and continue building.

Yep... building and/or holding.

There could be cases in which that person only had 12 BTC from 2015; however, there could be other cases in which the person had been continuing to build his BTC, and so even though he bought $3k worth of BTC all at one time in mid 2015, he had also decided to continue to invest $50 per week into bitcoin from April 2015 until April 2025, so then if over the past 10 years he had continued to invest $50 per week, he would have had ended up investing an additional $26.2k and accumulating an additional 15 BTC (surely most of it at the beginning of the investment).

So then now he would end up having had invested $29.2k and accumulated a total of 27 BTC, which currently has a 200-WMA value of $1.355 million and a spot price value of nearly $3.2 million. So really going based on the 200-WMA valuation, I think that the guy would be in a position to sustainably withdraw $135k per year. So he is in a very good position, even if he were to choose to withdraw at a lower rate just to be sure that he did not withdraw too much.

Quote from: SmartCharpa on Today at 11:01:35 AM

Quote from: yixichloro2xx on Today at 04:05:55 AM

One of the key takeaways from your experience is how different each cycle feels, even if the patterns rhyme, the emotions, surprises, and outcomes can still catch people off guard, whether they are new or seasoned.

Seeing 6x–7x gains in just a couple of years is lifechanging, especially for people whohave never experienced anything close to that before. But like you rightly pointed out, those who are still accumulating should not let past performance paralyze them. Every cycle brings new chances, and what is more important than price is positioning and mindset.

Those who accumulated before October 2023 are probably feeling validated now but it doesn't mean the window is closed. Bitcoin is long term, and the real magic tends to show up years down the line, not just one or two. Accumulating consistently, staying humble, and keeping your strategy in place is how you position yourself to benefit from whatever future upside may come, whether it is 4 years or 10 years down the road...

One thing I have learned is that each Bitcoin cycle feels different; even if the pattern seems to be the same, the way the market moves, the fear, and the joy and how it always surprises people. That is why we must have strong mind and not allow emotions control us. Seeing your money rise 6x or 7x in a short period of time is good, but it is not something you should always expect.

You cannot necessarily expect any particular results, yet you should have a plan regarding how you are going to proceed based on any particular scenarios that could play out, even extreme scenarios that are within possible happenings or even that go beyond expectations.

Quote from: SmartCharpa on Today at 11:01:35 AM

And while those who owned Bitcoin before October 2023 may feel like winner right now, but it does not mean that it is too late for others,

For sure there are levels.

There are guys who just got started around October 2023 or even a year prior to October 2023, and there are guys who had already pretty much established their bitcoin position prior to October 2023, and there are guys who started accumulating their bitcoin after October 2023, including guys who are just starting right now.

Anyone who has no bitcoin is not prepared for up.

Anyone who has low amounts of bitcoin may well be insufficiently/inadequately prepared for up.

Guys have to make these determinations and frequently they make mistakes in their failure/refusal to get started at whatever the BTC price happens to be.

Quote from: SmartCharpa on Today at 11:01:35 AM

Bitcoin is a long term journey, you may not see big profits in one or two years, but with patience and consistency, the reward will come later, so instead of looking back and regretting, focus on how to build your investment for the future. Continue building, stay humble, and always plan. That's how you win in the long term.

Even the past examples do not really seem to show great levels of wealth creation until much time has passed, and surely it does help to experience 70x or greater BTC price appreciation after a guy had already done most of his buying.. but yeah, not easy to get into such a position... so guys likely need to just stack what they can at the time that they learn about bitcoin.. and keep on stacking, as you mentioned.