Quote from: Wind_FURY on July 30, 2025, 01:28:52 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on July 30, 2025, 01:37:11 AM

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It's probably just greed, and a little feeling of FOMO when I read all of the bullish information being posted on X. Plus as a personal "rule", if I have more than six to seven months worth of monthly expenses saved, the rest I should invest. But everything I like, like Bitcoin and Gold, looks "expensive" now. The only strategy to do is DCA during the current market condition.

I don't know how gold is relevant.. except someone who is lost in regards to the value of bitcoin, and surely at most, you might hold up to 10% of the size of your bitcoin investment int gold and even 10% is probably too much.

Surely, we have the idea of ongoingly investing into bitcoin and perhaps keeping up to 3 months of expenses in an emergency fund... So if you have money that is beyond 3 months of expenses, then I would consider them to be reserve funds, which means that you can use them for whatever you like, including for emergency purposes if you were to have an actual emergency situation come about.

So surely, if the main reason that you are holding an extra 3-4 months of cash is potentially buy dips with that extra, then that surely seems to be too much cash to be holding to for the purpose of buying dips that might not happen. Of course if you had not been buying bitcoin for the past year or more, then of course, your cash reserves would be building up - and Many of us likely realize that even a guy who might be saving up 15% of his income, it may well take him a couple of years just to build up 3 months of his expenses in cash (since 3 months is 25% of a year.. which would mean that if a guy were to be holding back 25% of his income for emergency/reserve funds, it would still take him a whole year to get to 3 months). Unless there is any particular reason to be holding such cash it seems to be problematic to be holding that much cash, since by the time you get to 6 months or more, your cash might be losing value nearly as fast as you are able to add to it.. which is part of the problem with ongoing debasement of the dollar and other fiat currencies..

Quote from: Wind_FURY on July 30, 2025, 01:28:52 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on July 30, 2025, 01:37:11 AM

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It's not merely about "not having enough of Bitcoin". It's also because holding cash as savings would go down in value.

Yep.. Not a good position to put yourself in to be holding so much cash, even though when there is a dip in the BTC price, there can be some psychological pleasure to be able to have a decent amount of money to buy such dip, when it finally comes.

As you likely realize, ever since October 2023, we have ONLY had a couple of dips that were around 30% or more which would have had been the drop from $73k to $47.5k and the other drop from $109.3k to $74.4k .. .. .. I suspect that you have not bought since 2022-ish... so yeah, you have likely been building up your cash since early 2023... which I consider to be problematic... yet of course, guys will do what they are going to do.. .

By the way, a more core consideration is whether you have enough bitcoin or not... If you have enough bitcoin, then it really does not matter if you might be holding extra cash, yet if you still do not have enough bitcoin, then that remains the more fundamental question that should motivate you in regards to your cashflow management and how much cash you are holding in reserves. You are likely making a mistake if you have already concluded that you don't have enough bitcoin, yet you are allowing your cash to build up because you are waiting for price dips that might not happen and even more problematic that you have likely been holding onto cash and allowing it to build up since around early 2023-ish... but hey, you do you... and hopefully others are not employing such strategies that seem to overly emphasize waiting rather than ongoingly buying bitcoin until you have enough or more than enough.. which is the most fundamental question..

Quote from: Tamaperdana on July 30, 2025, 01:37:18 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on July 30, 2025, 01:37:11 AM

Quote from: Tamaperdana on July 29, 2025, 04:30:41 AM

Quote from: SmartCharpa on July 28, 2025, 10:37:45 PM

Sure, Bitcoin was cheap a few years ago, and many people overlooked it because they didn't think it was worth their money to take the risks, but some had the opportunity to buy when it was around $10k or $20k. However, we can see rich people continue to buy more and more of it. And some people feel that Bitcoin can be challenging for them to buy. If we wait too long, the price will get higher, which will make it difficult for us to buy even a small. Some people who have yet to buy should understand that if they do not do it now, they may miss the opportunity, like some people lost it before 2020 and 2022. Many people expected the price to fall, but the price continued to increase.

It’s best to start now, even if it is just a small amount. We don't need to buy everything at once, you may buy a little when you have the money. It's just a matter of starting somewhere, because some people will not start at all, and the future may be more difficult. When Bitcoin becomes too expensive, we may not be able to buy it again. So, earlier is better, even if it is small, rather than waiting and regretting later.

That's why we must be able to use our minds well, because I'm sure people who think the current bitcoin price is expensive, don't think and don't analyze for the next 10 years. They only think for the short term, that's why they think that the current bitcoin price is expensive and they prefer to wait for the price to drop to make a purchase. Even though if they just learn a little about bitcoin, I'm sure they will also realize that the action of waiting for the price to drop is very inappropriate. But unfortunately there are still many people who are reluctant to think in that direction and only focus on the price of bitcoin which they consider expensive.

To be honest, I personally also regret very much for people who do not make the decision to invest at this time in bitcoin. Because I also used to be in a phase like them, which was just waiting for the price of bitcoin to drop. But after I find out little by little, it turns out that the action I did was wrong. Because when we invest in bitcoin, we will struggle with time. Because bitcoin is different from other assets, because bitcoin has a very fast price growth, so if you wait too much, it is certain that you will lose a lot of momentum. For this reason, there is such a thing as a DCA strategy, actually this strategy is very helpful to make us more consistent and directed.

People who consider bitcoin to be too expensive don't understand bitcoin, and even if they end up buying on the dip, they will end up selling way too much too soon.

Somehow guys have to get over their ideas about price and just consider buying bitcoin at any price for 4-10 years or longer, and then perhaps study bitcoin along the way, and maybe after a couple of years accumulating bitcoin they might start to get some better ideas about bitcoin.

Yes, generally speaking, making people aware of Bitcoin's potential and showing them how to properly utilize it is not easy. Because sometimes people's perceptions are difficult to change, even when presented with concrete evidence. In my opinion, Bitcoin has proven this decade to be a highly relevant investment asset worth buying at any price. For example, when Bitcoin hit a new all-time high in the previous bull cycle, around $68,000, many people were hesitant to accumulate at that price.

But those who did buy at that time certainly won't regret it now, as Bitcoin has now reached $120,000. So, if we learn from this incident, it's clear that buying Bitcoin now, at any price, if we hold it long-term, will likely yield a profit. So, what's there to be confused about when investing in Bitcoin? The problem is, not everyone's perception reaches that level.

Yep.. We largely don't know, and there may have been guys who started buying bitcoin at $64k in early 2021, and then the BTC price dipped into the $30ks for a while and ended up having a second top about $69k, so they might have had gotten upset when the BTC price dropped down to $20k and below, yet if they kept buying through that whole period, their bitocin holdings would be in pretty good shape right now. We do not necessarily know where the BTC price is going in the short-term yet it seems guys have been doing pretty good who had been consistently buying 4 years or more, even though it is even better if they have been in bitcoin longer than 4 years.

Quote from: Kelward on July 30, 2025, 03:11:07 PM

I don't have the mindset of "invest what you can afford to loose" when it comes to Bitcoin investment, I believe that the phrase is best suited for gambling and shitcoins. It is investments that you're not sure of their ROI in the future that you can invest insignificant amounts so if the project dies you will only loose your insignificant amount.

You seem to believe that bitcoin investing is guaranteed.. which is a bad mindset... but hey you can do what you like and think the way you like, and hopefully you figure out a balance that works for you to invest in bitcoin and also to communicate about bitcoin investing in ways that does not screw up the way that others think about bitcoin investing.

As many times repeated here, the idea of don't invest more than you can afford to lose has to do with being emotionally able to tolerate large draw downs in the asset, including potentially going to zero, so you don't end up getting emotional about it and then selling on the way down because you start to worry about losing it.

Quote from: Kelward on July 30, 2025, 03:11:07 PM

In Bitcoin investment you can invest with lump sums or DCA method depending on your financial strength and budget allocation. Instead of investing what I can afford to loose in Bitcoin investment because I know that it's a store of value I'll rather invest with amount that I can conveniently afford for a valued asset not what I can loose. Amount that I can use to buy Bitcoin is gotten after I priotize my financial needs, not an insignificant amounts.

That perspective does not make a lot of sense, which largely signifies that you don't understand the idea of not investing more than you can afford to lose, and you seem to think that your bitcoin investment is guaranteed to be profitable.

Surely no investor is investing into bitcoin or any other investment with purposes of losing. The same is true with traders.

Sure many of us do not consider bitcoin to be a trade, yet money management skills for traders and investors is not significantly different since both investing and trading funds come from discretionary funds and it should be related to money that we can afford to lose.. even though no one goes into investing and/or trading with intentions to lose, even though surely traders are tending to take more risks in the way they manage their trading funds as compared with investors who may well just build up their investment funds with the passage of time and with ongoing buying.

Quote from: Jostern on July 30, 2025, 04:04:58 PM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on July 30, 2025, 01:28:52 PM

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Sometimes we might want to think and conclude that we’ve a very good amount of bitcoin but equally we might also realize that we’ don’t have enough as we think considering what amount someone must have accumulated enough bitcoin in a short time interval, some folks it doesn’t take them a full circle to have enough bitcoin in their portfolio because they believe they can invest with lump sums and try to accumulate their bitcoin in a short while, and I also think that there are people who might not even accumulate enough bitcoin in one full circle because they might not be consistent with their accumulation or probably they must have been accumulating little by little and it will take like two circle to have enough bitcoin in their portfolio

Even if a person invests 10% of his income into bitcoin every year, it will take 10 years to invest 1 whole year's of income into bitcoin.

Surely some folks might be able to invest more aggressively, but it is not easy to accomplish, and there are so many people who don't even invest (or save) 10% of their income per year.. so it can take a lot of will power to increase beyond 10% - even if a person is able to. There are some people who are not even able to invest that 10% amount because their discretionary income is not high enough.

So guys have to do what they can in terms of building up an investment portfolio, and yeah like you seem to be suggesting, there can be inconsistent income and/or expenses that contribute towards inabilities to continue to invest in bitcoin, so there is some needs to try to make bitcoin a priority and perhaps figuring out income and expenses to be able to try to consistently invest in bitcoin for as long as possible and to potentially even increase the level of aggressiveness.. even though sometimes there might frequently be more needs for normies to try to figure out ways to increase their discretionary income by increasing their income and/or cutting their expenses so that they have more discretionary income to work with when it comes to figuring out how much of that (how aggressive to be) in terms of allocating towards their ongoing investing into bitcoin.

By the way, you cited Wind_FURY, who is talking about having quite a bit of reserves (back up funds) built up, but choosing to keep that in cash, which to me seems to be a form of whimpiness, even though surely the level of aggressiveness is within the choice of each of us to figure out how we want to deal with our cash and how much to invest regularly versus how much to hold back for investing later for dips that might not happen.

Quote from: Ruttoshi on July 30, 2025, 04:40:34 PM

Quote from: Bd officer on July 30, 2025, 03:58:29 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on July 30, 2025, 01:37:11 AM

People who consider bitcoin to be too expensive don't understand bitcoin, and even if they end up buying on the dip, they will end up selling way too much too soon.

I think this happens more to newbies. Maybe after getting an idea about Bitcoin, they think the current price is expensive after seeing the past price of Bitcoin. Actually, Bitcoin has never been expensive, Bitcoin has not been expensive in the past and Bitcoin is not expensive in the present either, because the price of Bitcoin will not remain stable here, but rather the price of Bitcoin will increase a lot over time. Now those who think Bitcoin is expensive should gain proper knowledge about Bitcoin, because if they do not have proper knowledge, they will not consider Bitcoin trustworthy. You have to invest in Bitcoin with trust and hold it.

Not only newbies have this mindset of not buying bitcoin at the bull run and say that's expensive. Even old forum members also have this mindset because they are more focused on buying and the bear market and sell at the bull run.
Such people are only traders and will regret their actions in future when they will be left with very little bitcoin and miss out from the compounding value of their portfolio.

Of course, it is a worse issue for longer term holders to sell too much bitcoin too soon because they are expecting to be able to buy bitcoin back cheaper than the price that they sold it.

Yet, the error does not have to go that far, since there are plenty of folks who might try to play the cycles in the way that they buy bitcoin too, and they think that they are outsmarting the market because they know about the cycles, so they figure that they will buy during the dips and just hold during the rips and just let their money stack up during such rip periods, yet they still likely end up with way too few bitcoin because they are not regularly buying, and surely many of us likely realize that if we can spend at least a whole cycle or maybe even a cycle and a half or two ongoingly buying bitcoin, then at some point, we will reach a level of bitcoin that we have enough.. even if we have not quite reached fuck you status yet. It is difficult to imagine very many folks who are able to get to such status in less than a whole cycle unless they were able to front load their bitcoin investment, and even if they were able to front-load their bitcoin investment, they still might not have had been able to get close to enough bitcoin so that it makes sense for them to stop or slow down in their bitcoin accumualtion practices (through ongoing buying).

Quote from: Ruttoshi on July 30, 2025, 04:40:34 PM

They fail to understand that the bitcoin that you bought when the price was $17k in 2022, cannot be bought for such amount again after they sell it. You buy bitcoin for higher amount overtime because the price keeps on increasing overtime.

Of course these are good points, and there is a lot of value to the earlier accumulated coins even if they might have prices all over the place, and even in the last 4-5 years, if a guy had been buying bitcoin persistently, consistently, ongoingly, regularly and perhaps even aggressively, he then likely bought coins at all kinds of price levels, and sure some of the coins have way higher level of profits, yet at the same time, it is likely that the more important question is the ongoing accumulation of bitcoin rather than getting preoccupied by selling some coins and taking profits.. and then still not having enough coins.. so then why would a guy sell from one hand and then buy back with the other hand, because his current status is (or should be) ongoing accumulation and not fucking around with selling until he gets to a certain level, which could take more than a cycle or two in order to get to a level where any selling might start to make sense.

So he starts out with more strict accumulation through ongoing buying, and then after a cycle or so he might get to a point that he can start to slow down in his bitcoin accumulation and even allowing some time to pass before he might graduate to a place where some selling might start to make sense. which should be at a point that he had reached some kind of overaccumulation status..

Quote from: Ruttoshi on July 30, 2025, 04:40:34 PM

It's really a wrong mindset to be playing such a game with your bitcoin instead of just constantly continue buying ongoingly for 4-10 years and above for your future. This is why you need to have a long-term investment mindset in the beginning of your bitcoin investment and set a bitcoin target to accumulate.

I have a hard time imagining very many guys who might be able to reach overaccumulation status in less than 4 years, and even a couple of cycles might be a challenge absent quite a bit of frontloading of the investment and perhaps even an investment rate that might be 15% to 25% of income and then maybe guys who are investing in a 25%-ish level might start to get to overaccumulation level after 6 years or more.

When we are referring to normal and regular people it tends to take longer, even for guys who might have abilities to invest into bitcoin at relatively aggressive levels without overdoing it and recking themselves.

Quote from: Derekfunds on July 30, 2025, 06:30:35 PM

Quote from: Tamaperdana on July 30, 2025, 01:37:18 PM

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You maybe correct but I still think it is not just about perception but rather the problem is starting and having the patient to hold for a long period of time. I won't be surprised if I heard those whom you said they bought Bitcoin around $68k sold their investment before this $120k all time high because some of them are scared that the next thing that will happen to the market is Dip which is normal and anyone who is holding for a long term should not think of Dip after they have already hold some fraction of Bitcoin instead they should be ready to take advantage whenever the price Dip because after the Dip the price will surge though it may not be immediately but surging after Dip is sacrosanct.

There is a certain value that come from holding through the ups and the downs, and even though the guy who bought at $68k cannot have any confidence about losing his 2x profits, he may well need to take a chill-pill and to ride out the situation for a couple of cycles.

Surely guys who have been buying regularly for around 4 years would now have an average cost per BTC that is around $50k, and surely there is a good feeling to have your BTC holdings in profits, yet there is also a good feeling to continue to allow the profits to grow even if they might have their ups and downs and there might even be periods that bitcoin holdings are in the red, yet it would not be common for a regular and consistent bitcoin buyer to have bitcoin in the red after he had been accumulating 4 years or more. Anything can happen, so it is not guaranteed that we will be in profits after 4 years, but if we really commit to investing in bitcoin for 4-10 years or longer and if we are accumulating bitcoin for 4 years or more, then our earliest of coins would have had been purchased 4 years or more earlier, yet our latest purchases would still be in their journey of adding and building our bitcoin stack size.

Quote from: SOKO-DEKE on July 30, 2025, 09:46:55 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on July 30, 2025, 01:37:11 AM

People who consider bitcoin to be too expensive don't understand bitcoin, and even if they end up buying on the dip, they will end up selling way too much too soon.

Yes, that is true. Seen bitcoin expensive and lucky to seen and buy dip has turned some people into traders now because, as they were lucky enough to buy Bitcoin when the price dipped, they will try to be smart and sell it once they see the Bitcoin price increase a little. They try to time the market again, attempting to buy deep, but from there, it possible that the price of Bitcoin won't come down to the price they set to buy back and some people are down still not able to buy bitcoin back again as the price continue to be increasing. In fact, this is the idea that has made some investors unable to hold for the long term, because their mindset isn't clear regarding their Bitcoin investment. They think that Bitcoin will not go higher much again, as they have seen Bitcoin become so expensive. And that is a wrong thought, because it's very possible for Bitcoin to reach $500K in the future let me just predict the price a bit. But as for me, I know that Bitcoin will go higher than that.

Of course it is quite likely that with the passage of time, bitcoin prices will continue to go up, and there are going to be normal people (and even institutions and governments) buying bitcoin at $500k plus, $2 million plus, $10 million plus and other higher prices, because that is just the way a scarce monetary asset is likely to work... which seems to be how bitcoin is currently working and how bitcoin is likely going to continue to work.. and we just have to see it play out and to see that it takes time to work its way ongoingly to higher and higher prices with the passage of time, and many normies will continue to believe that they are too late.. yet little by little many of them will come to realize that they don't really haver a choice but to buy at whatever price rather than getting worried and/or worked up based on their perceptions of it being overly priced... which is going to largely mean that earlier adopters and earlier buyers are going to continue to be advantaged over the ones who wait.