Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 03:59:15 AM

Quote from: Bluedrem on August 05, 2025, 02:21:23 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on August 04, 2025, 05:46:45 PM

I agree with all of this, while at the same time, seats will come available as the price goes up, but yeah at the same time, if the price did not go up enough, then some of those seats will still not come available and people surely can choose whether or not to give up some seats, even if they know that they are limited.. and yeah, if they are holding 100 chairs but they only need 1 or 2 or 10, they may well be willing to give up 5 of their chairs at $115k, and then perhaps another 3 chairs at $173k and another chair or two at $276k.. .. so they might not even realized that they were holding so many chairs until at some later point down the road.. and surely there are some guys with 1,000s of chairs...

Dear JJG, as you said, after an investor reaches his investment limit, he can sell some parts of the chair at different prices. For example, you said to give up some at $115,000 and then give up some when it goes above $170,000.
Now my point is, if they don't need the money at that moment, why would they break the chair's foundation?
If he breaks it without need, he might invest that money in some other sector or he might use the money unnecessarily [which only makes his strong base unstable]. Now, let's say he breaks his Bitcoin stock and converts it into leaves (which can turn into ashes) or invests it in some other sector, will it be more profitable than Bitcoin? Can it protect a person's money from inflation better than Bitcoin?

It seems that I was attempting to largely extend our discussion of a chair analogy in order to suggest that guys who came earlier may have a lot of options and they may be holding a lot of chairs, so unless they sell all of their bitcoin, they may never end up in a position without enough chairs.

I am not necessarily presuming that a guy ends up using any of his sold bitcoin in any kind of meaningful way, maybe he consumes withe the bitcoin that he spends or he throws it away. Sure at some point a guy might end up diversifying out of bitcoin, since he might start out with just investing into bitcoin and balancing his bitcoin investment with cash, so then at some point he might have 6 months of his expenses in cash or some cash equivalents, and then he might have 1, 2, 3 or even more years of his expenses in bitcoin, and even a guy who invested a couple of years of his expenses into bitcoin over 2-3 cycles, he still might end up with 15 to 20 years or more of his expenses in bitcoin, and personally, I believe that if he is measuring the value of his bitcoin from the 200-WMA, then he may well start to live off of his bitcoin once he has 10 years or more of his expenses in bitcoin, and sure the more cushion (extra) that he has, then the more he does not have to worry if from time to time, he might spend beyond his regular budget since in those kinds of scenarios, he would have extra bitcoin.

I frequently use the example of a guy who might have had started out with an income of $30k or even $50k, and maybe if he had been accumulating bitcoin for a couple of cycles at 15% to 25% of his income, he may well might have had gotten to a place in which his bitcoin would be able to support his total income and even a higher percentage of income, so then such a guy has a lot of options.

Let's say that we have a guy with a $40k income, and he had been investing 20% of his income into bitcoin for a bit longer than the past 2 cycles, so he started investing into bitcoin in June 2016, and he was investing $155 per week (which is $8k per year). So over the past 9-ish years, he would have had invested right around $74k, yet he would have had accumulated 15.6 BTC. So he would have enough bitcoin to support himself at about a $79k per year income, which surely is nearly double his current income, so largely he would be set for life, especially if he was withdrawing less than $79k per year.. sSo largely the guy has to figure out an amount of withdrawal that is comfortable up to $79k per year..

And he does not necessarily need to invest into any thing else with any of his withdrawals.

Quote from: Bluedrem on August 05, 2025, 02:21:23 PM

No matter what people say, I still consider Bitcoin to be the safest asset. Because I know its specific amount [if there are only 100 apples in the world and someone or some group keeps two, three or five apples for themselves, it must be valuable] then why should I sell my apples and go buy oranges whose amount in the world no one knows.

If you are withdrawing sustainably from your bitcoin, then you don't need other assets, yet some people will still choose to have some other assets.

Quote from: Bluedrem on August 05, 2025, 02:21:23 PM

Yes, a person can sell his Bitcoin after having saved enough when he needs a house or a new car for urgent transportation.

If he figures out sustainable withdrawal then he is not depleting his BTC. He always has enough and he never would withdraw to take himself out of overaccumualtion status... so if the guy decides that he could withdraw $79k per year, but he decides to live off of $50k per year, then the portion that he does not withdraw keeps rolling over, building up and/or compounding upon itself so later down the road (maybe a year or two later), he may well begin to be able to withdraw more than $100k per year without knocking himself out of overaccumulation status.

Quote from: Bluedrem on August 05, 2025, 02:21:23 PM

Again, if he retires and later there is no profit from all the sectors he invested in other than Bitcoin and the emergency fund runs out, then he can sell some of his previously created Bitcoin collection to survive.

From my perspective, a guy might choose to start to live off his BTC, so he is selling every month or every quarter or twice a year, or maybe he is timing his sales a couple of times every cycle, so he sells for a whole cycle at a time.. but he should not be knocking himself out of overaccumualtion status.. so he only starts to sell when he has more than enough bitcoin.

Quote from: Bluedrem on August 05, 2025, 02:21:23 PM

But without the need for money, I will never encourage a person to sell Bitcoin even if he has achieved his target amount of Bitcoin and there is a sufficient amount of profit.

You seem to not understand what getting to overaccumulation status means.

Of course, if you don't know how much you need, then you might never be able to reach overaccumulation status.

Also, if you don't know how to calculate from the 200-WMA, then you might also not know how much you need.

Quote from: Bluedrem on August 05, 2025, 02:21:23 PM

He/She should be careful with Bitcoin because Bitcoin is still protecting his assets from inflation in these unstable times in the world.

That is why bitcoin is the best place to keep value, yet overaccumulation status is still attainable.. especially the earlier you start to accumulate, and yeah, if you don't have any discretionary income or hardly any discretionary income, then it is going to be much more difficult to reach overaccumulation status.

I do recognize and understand that there are a decently large number of folks in the world who either have little to no discretionary income and/or they are not able to invest for the long term because they have inabilities to put away discretionary income. I am not going to claim that bitcoin directly ca solve their problems, even though they still may well benefit indirectly from bitcoin as a system that puts our whole money system in a more fair place. Surely many of us who are participating in various bitcoin threads on this forum are considering that we are in bitcoin in order to attempt to directly benefit from bitcoin, and if we are able to stock away bitcoin regularly from our discretionary income, then it is still possible that we are going to be able to directly benefit from bitcoin and to make it to overaccumulation status... some folks might take longer than others to reach overaccumulation status.

Quote from: Bluedrem on August 05, 2025, 02:21:23 PM

My message to people would be-
Spend only what you need, not more.
You go to your destination quickly but don't have an accident.
You should go down if necessary, but not in a rush, as this may require an MRI.
Be cheerful, not over crazy.

This all makes sense in regards to each of us going at our own pace and not over doing it... and so each of us has to figure what that will be... and I frequently suggest that guys invest into bitcoin as much as we are able to invest on a persistent, consistent, regular and ongoing basis without over doing it... so that means aggressive but without over doing it and that means trying to reach overaccumulation status if you can. If you cannot reach overaccumulation status then you do the best that you can.

True financial freedom—when a person can say, I have bought my time. Financial freedom is not just about income, but also about complete control over time and life. Bitcoin is complete control over one’s source of income; people who have already participated in this game already have many chairs in their pockets. If they do not sell, they will not be without chairs. Through patience, discipline, and foresight, a person can achieve financial security for their future, especially in the case of a limited supply asset like Bitcoin. Selling is not progress—if it is not managed wisely, it can be the beginning of permanent losses.
Most importantly, Bitcoin is an asset that is ideal for savings. Because it has been able to preserve purchasing power over the long term and has the potential to grow in the future. But this benefit can only be enjoyed to the fullest extent by those who have a certain amount of discretionary income and who are able to invest consistently.
If Bitcoin itself becomes a source of income, then there is no need to sell it and invest in something else that is risky. It can build the foundation for a self-sufficient and sustainable lifestyle.
Mining in the right way means becoming stronger. Not a matter of calculation—a model of financial philosophy, where a person, through a combination of moderation, prudence, and a long-term view, not only survives, but gradually moves himself towards a more prosperous future.
If a person uses less than his potential mining capacity, then the unused portion creates a compound effect along with the potential increase in the value of Bitcoin. Because it has been able to preserve purchasing power in the long term and has the potential to continue in the future. But this benefit can only be enjoyed to the fullest extent by those who have a certain amount of discretionary income and who are able to invest consistently.
Bitcoin creates an alternative economic structure that can be more just and inclusive in the future. It can be the basis for a just future—and being part of that path is a valuable achievement in itself.