Quote from: paxmao on August 14, 2025, 10:53:35 PM

Quote from: DaRude on August 14, 2025, 10:12:04 PM

Quote from: YADAYADA on August 14, 2025, 09:48:00 PM

Quote from: farsky on August 14, 2025, 02:51:51 PM

You don't have the full data. I'll tell you.
This conflict began with Russia's support for Ossetian separatists.
In the early 1990s, South Ossetia proclaimed their independence, which was never recognized by the international community (except for Russia, Nicaragua, Venezuela, Syria, and Nauru).

Georgia believes that South Ossetia is its ancestral land, and Ossetians are just another ethnic group. Georgia sees South Ossetia's desire to secede as the result of Russian policy and incitement. Russian provided financial and military support to Ossetian separatists.

In both 2008 in Georgia, and in 2014 and 2022 in Ukraine, Russian propaganda used the narrative that Georgia and Ukraine were committing "genocide" against the Russian-speaking population, which required a "humanitarian intervention." International investigations did not confirm these accusations.

Therefore, claiming that "Georgia attacked Ossetia" is equivalent to claiming that "Ukraine attacked the DPR and LPR."

(It's important to add that Ossetians are a distinct people who are not part of the Georgian ethnic group. It's a pity that they attempted to realize their right to self-determination through armed conflict with Russia's help, just like Abkhazia. Now, having gained independence from Georgia, both Ossetia and Abkhazia are, in effect, under the control of Russia.)

PS. Please research such things a little better. Spreading incorrect information harms the community.

I hate getting into loads of back n forth that requires time and walls of text so literally breaking it down to the most basic point that would give weight to the statement I made earlier skipping the complexities of when South Ossetia was an autonomous oblast within the Georgian Soviet Socialist Republic back in the soviet era. Anyway I am not talking about South Ossetia’s right to self-determination or the right to secession.I am making only a specific point based on legal analysis where back in 1992 after the previous conflict the Russian intervention allowed South Ossetia to become a de-facto independent republic but yes it is still seen as part of Georgia by the "international community".

I am referring to the status quo that was in place back in 2008 to stop an escalation which was broken by Georgian forces and as the Russians took responsibility for "peacekeeping enforcement" they had no choice but to enforce this and yeah anyone with an IQ over 80 is aware of Russian MO with regards using separatists to lay claim to territory but Georgia violated international law when it used force against Russian "peacekeeping" troops stationed in Tskhinvali, and from that moment, Russia’s army had grounds to use force in the "peacekeepers" defense. This is FACT based on international law whether one likes it or not without any form of bias. I understand your bias towards your former homeland but in court emotions and bias along with opinions are worthless and only facts are admissable.

I support neither Russia, Georgia or south ossetians and am just the devils advocate here. I am not part of any "community" or "company" and just a casual observer stating certain facts.

I am not misinformed nor a misinformer. Georgia could have been a whole lot more clever in how it dealt with the situation and only played right into the hands of Russia giving them the pretext they were waiting for to use military force albeit outrageous disproportionate force. All is fair in love and war....

Rusia does NOT have this pretext in Ukraines case because they were not the guarantors of the separatists in the region on paper signed and sealed that would have given them said pretext. I am speaking from a legal point of view no matter if its fair or unfair and I am on point on this "specific" matter and have zero interest in the politics or emotions behind the beligerence. Unfortunately we will have to agree to disagree on this "specific" point but I am pretty clued in like every dog on the street as to how Russia uses the whole separatist stage play in order to bring regions under its sphere of influence.

Step 1 - Sign agreement allowing Russian peacekeepers under Russian control in South Ossetia

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sochi_agreement

Russia brokered a ceasefire and negotiated the Agreement in 1992. The agreement primarily established a cease-fire between both the Georgian and South Ossetian forces, but it also defined a zone of conflict around the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali and established a security corridor along the border of the as yet unrecognized South Ossetian territories. The Agreement also created a Joint Control Commission and a peacekeeping body, the Joint Peacekeeping Forces group (JPKF). The JPKF was put under Russian command

Step 2 - Attack South Ossetia with Russian peacekeepers
Russian, Georgian forces battle in South Ossetia
Georgia pounds S Ossetia fighters

Step 3 - Blame Russia

Edit:
Step 4 - Don't ever mention this when discussing Russia-Georgia war?

Just Ruzzia defending its interests as usual. If they ever believed in an independent country they would not need to be guarantors of anything. Ruzzia is to blame for the whole inestability in the region. Otherwise the existing groups would simply have to find a way to settle their own interests and reach an agreement - with whatever means.

On regards to Ukraine, same principle - Ruzzia's government self-issuing themselves the right to rule over others.

I love this one...

Quote

to become full citizens of Russia with full rights

Full rights... and full limitations and obligations. Most know which are of greater weight, particularly if you do not live in Moscow or StPb.

Well, there is a status quo, when there's an attempt to change it someone is trying to expand one interest and someone will be defending it. Russia believes in other's independence much more that US does. But for some reason you never want to go for the biggest offender.

If third highest US politician wouldn't have given out those cookies and supported coup in Ukraine would so many people have died? Ukraine would've already had three different presidential elections, and there's a good chance Putin wouldn't be at the head of Russia, and EU would be doing great now. Arguments that Russia causes instability in countries around Russia's borders but US causes stability globally is laughable.

US self issued themselves the right to rule over the globe.

Point being millions who were born in Ukraine who now received Russian citizenship enjoy the same rights, privileges and have obligations as those born in Russia, there are no differences. This is in stark contrast to Palestinians being second class citizens on their own land which the west gladly supports. In the West Bank Palestinians are subject to Israeli military court under martial's law where Israelis are judged by Israeli civil law. But as long as US/EU can benefit that is totally fine.

They have a freedom of movement, no one is stopping them from going back to Ukraine if they wish to.