Quote from: ruykeri on Today at 01:07:30 PM

Quote from: RockBell on Today at 11:20:54 AM

Quote from: Joeboy on August 12, 2025, 05:15:25 PM

Quote from: Finebone on August 12, 2025, 10:14:34 AM

I think you are right about what you said here concerning age, it plays an important role on how a Bitcoin investment should approach his investment, just as you have said already, you can't expect a 70year old Bitcoin investor still planning on holding for more than 10 years because he knows that he has a limited time, unlike those that are in their 20's.
But those in their 20's don't have to buy only the dip, they just have to buy anytime their discretionary income is available, but if their is a dip in the market they might seize the opportunity and buy aggressively if they have their reserves funds to do so, because they have quite a lot of time to reap from their investment when bitcoin has risen up to a million dollar or more.

No matter the age, it's still very wise to invest in Bitcoin regularly when you can and use market dips as a chance to buy more if you have extra funds set aside cos nobody knows how long they have. Someone in their 20's might not necessarily live longer than someone in their 70's. What really matters is the goal the person aims to achieve, his/her financial situation, and how much risk they are willing to take

No matter your age, you can still invest in Bitcoin because the market is always open to anyone who wants to do so. Even with retirement funds, you can properly make a plan to invest in Bitcoin, and people are getting wiser because they are taking advantage of every Bitcoin opportunity they get. If you are retiring, it is even better to invest in Bitcoin and then use your pension as emergency funds, because it will help if you take things seriously. Since money will be coming in each month, planning is necessary. because your financial situation is so everything, because other people have more opportunities to invest.

In fact, the Bitcoin market is always open to everyone. Anyone can invest according to their wishes and convenience whenever they want. There is no age limit here. Just as a young person can invest from his income, an older person can invest in Bitcoin from his pension or a savings fund, or if he has any discretionary income at that time, he can invest in Bitcoin from there. However, I generally see Bitcoin as a future security asset. Now a person aged 50 to 60 has earned his income through hard work all his life. If he has invested in Bitcoin for 10 to 20 years. At the end of the day, if he reaches the over-accumulation stage, then at that time he has two options. If he wants, he can sell some Bitcoins through sustainable withdrawal and meet his expenses, he can live comfortably without any financial pressure. Or if he has discretionary income in retirement, he can invest it in Bitcoin. For the financial security of his future children.

You are both contradicting yourself ruykeri and you are not really saying anything. It is like you don't understand the meaning of reaching a state of overaccumulation.

Once you reached such a state, you don't need to accumulate more, unless your goal is to reach even a higher overaccumulation status, and sure that is possible, and sure people have choices to do whatever they like...

There are people who purposefully choose to target higher and higher levels of ability to live off of their wealth, yet it may or may not make sense, and perhaps sometimes we need to give some examples.

Let's say that a guy in his early 40s, had been accumulating bitcoin for around two cycles, and he started out with an income of $30k, and his age was mid-30s when he started, and he increased his income to around $50k, and perhaps he started out investing into bitcoin by putting in around $10k from his various other investments and also at around $100 per week with various increases his weekly bitcoin investment amount to $250 per week and maybe he also gets bonuses 2-3 times a year (or somehow gets some extra cash) of maybe anywhere between $800 and $2,500 depending on the reason for the extra money, so then he tends to shore up his investment or his cashflow or to take care of some of his expenses or other desires that he has in terms of consumption.

So maybe in 2017 when he started in bitcoin, he got around 3 BTC for his initial $10k, and maybe his DCA over the past 8-ish years had resulted in around $80k invested and around 8.4 BTC. Perhaps his various bonuses had allowed him to buy another 0.8 BTC for around $20k invested.

So in total up until now, he had invested around $110k into bitcoin, which is more than 2x his current income level, which has resulted in his accumulating 12.2 BTC. 12.2 BTC has a current market price of around $1.4 million, yet more importantly, its 200-WMA value is $629.2k which largely means that he could withdraw at $62.9k per year in a sustainable way and to quit his job and do whatever he wants at a greater income level than his current working income. Maybe he is expecting another 3-4% per year raise in his income, so he accounts for those kinds of work-satisfaction matters. Initially, he was thinking that he wanted to be able to withdraw at a rate that is around $80k per year, and that would be enough for him, and even though right now he is close to that level, he also can calculate and see that with his current bitcoin stash, he is already likely to be exceeding his target income level of $80k per year before the end of the year (going by the 200-WMA valuation and its future projected going up level).

So then he is faced with a question of continuing to accumulate more bitcoin and/or just letting time pass without withdrawing from his bitcoin and the level of his ability to withdraw is going to continue to go up, even without his having to add more bitcoin to his stash.

So we may well get back to your initial proclamation ruykeri that relates to at what point does the guy have enough bitcoin, and what purpose is he serving to continue to want more even when he might have already set his accumulation target but then perhaps he was realizing that he was reaching his target faster than he had expected. Even if he doubles his income requirement to $160k, he is likely to be at that level of sustainable income from his BTC by early 2028, even if he does not accumulate any more BTC beyond his current BTC stash of 12.2 BTC.

Part of my point is that at some point our hypothetical guy has enough bitcoin or more than enough bitcoin and we should work with that, yet if we keep changing our goal and wanting more and more and more, then we might need to consider why we are doing such a thing. Surely I understand that guys who are younger might not really know how much they want or need so they might not really have a top goal, yet we can see that sometimes we might also start to enjoy the fruits of our bitcoin investment and to profit from our bitcoin investment at an earlier stage than expected, yet some guys want to continue to work or maybe they look for better work since they have more options that include their option to choose not to work since their bitcoin is able to sustain their lifestyle at and above their current payrate or maybe even their anticipated future payrate.. and no matter what, they become empowered to have options regarding both whether to work and/or if they might choose to do a different kind of work that they find more enjoyable and suitable to them, even if they pay might not be as much as their other work...

Some kinds of work have more potential to help a person to learn other areas, including that a guy might choose to stay in his current work or even go into another kind of work and he might even supplement his work by going to school to learn another kind of work, and he would not have had that option previously but if his ability to draw from his bitcoin allows him not to work if he chooses or to work in areas for the purpose of training himself and learning new areas.. which might even include networking and then telling someone that you will work for free or a very low amount as a kind of intern in order to learn the field and to network within the new field.

Quote from: HustleZ on Today at 04:39:48 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 04:27:32 PM

If you have $5k to $10k, you could invest parts of it lump sum right away, yet even the parts that you would defer by DCA or by buying dips, you would set up the parameters, the amounts and the time, so the DCA could be over 5-6 weeks or it could be over 5-6 months or some other timeline, and if the BTC price generally trends down during the period of your DCA you are better off for deferring yet if the BTC price generally trends up during your period of DCAing you would have had been better off to buy right away with that portion. You cannot really know price direction with certainty, even though you could have some hunches that might end up being or not being correct

Yes you are correct. If a person has a large amount of money eg $5k to $10k then one should lump sum some.of it while leave some To DCA so that DCA smoothens the volatility out for the lump summed amount. But if a person has less lets say $1k then he should Just stick to DCA and Invest little by little because that amount isnt much to lump sum.

There surely can be a variety of scenarios in which lump sum comes into play. Let's say in the very beginning, a person is not really sure about investing into bitcoin, and he is not even sure about the level of his discretionary income. He has some ballpark ideas, and he has various debts, and other complications in both the expense side of the equation and also in the income side of the equation. He hears about bitcoin, and perhaps studies it for a week or two, and he decides that he should get started investing into bitcoin as soon as possible... yet at the same time, he knows that he has to sort out his financies and his psychology since he knows that he is not in a great financial/psychological position.

Upon quickly ballparkedly looking at his income versus expenses, he is pretty sure that he would be fine to invest $100 per week, yet he does not want to make any mistakes of overdoing it, so he starts out with $35 per week invested into bitcoin, and embarks on various assessments of his personal circumstances, including figuring out his cashflow management situation and charting out his various loan payments so that he might figure out if he might pay those off quicker or if he might prioritize some or just stick with minimal payments, including that there might be times in which either balloon payments are due and/or that he might be able to extend them if he wants to try to avoid the balloon payments, depending on the interest rate of such loans and/or if there might be punishments for early or late payments.

After a few weeks of sorting through his finances, he is able to increase his bitcoin investment amount to $70 per week, yet at the same time, he had figured out that his income tended to vary between $500 and $2,900 per month (with a more common amount that is around $1,400), yet his expenses tended to be between $900 and $1,300 with a more common amount around $1,150, yet he tentatively figures that he might be able to bring down some of his expenses to lower levels including if he is able to resolve some of his debt payments, yet he is not sure if he wants to resolve his debt payments and he is still looking into that, even though one of them is only 2.5% annual interest, and another one is more than 12% annual interest, so he is thinking to focus on reducing the 12% interest rate one first.

He also might realize that based on his historical variability in his income/expenses, he was already in the habit of keeping around $800 to $1,300 in his cash reserves in order to cover situations in which his income might not be able to cover his expenses, yet he realizes that when he started to invest into bitcoin, that he is likely going to need to build up his back up funds to something like $3,900 in order to cover 3 months of his expenses, and initially when he started out investing into bitcoin he saw that he had right around $1k in his back up funds, and so surely he wants to grow his back up funds, but if he is investing into bitcoin at $35 per week in the very beginning, he recognizes that it might take him 28 weeks to get his bitcoin investment to the same size as his back up funds, so he is not necessarily inclined to build his back up funds faster than his bitcoin investment, and sure the rate and speed that he invests into bitcoin as compared with building up his back up funds remains within his discretion to decide such things.

In any event if this guy ultimately works his way up from $35 per week then $70 per week then $100 per week, he also is likely to find various ways that that he might be able to increase his income and/or decrease his expenses, so he might get up to $150 per week then $200 per week, and then maybe down the road, he realizes that he has quite a bit of variability in how much discretionary income that he has, so maybe he will decide that he will do at least $100 per week no matter what, but depending on his monthly income and/or expenses, he may well add to his weekly amount, so his weekly amount might vary quite a bit from $100 to $500 depending on his income expenses.

Now, if the guy gets more and more in touch with his income/expenses and various back up funds, then maybe he also knows that 2-3 times per year he receives some extra funds and/or maybe he had been investing in various other investments for 5-10 years prior to coming to bitcoin, so he knows that some of those other investments could be folded into bitcoin.. Any times that he has new money he can weigh how to treat that new money including whether he considers some or all the funds to be plugged into DCA, used to buy right away and/or to come up with some buying on dip formulas. Just because the extra amount is $500 versus $1k versus $10k, the amounts do not necessarily inform him about which category to put the money, and surely if we are erroring on the side of buying a lot right away rather than deferring, then we still are not necessarily coming to the right conclusion for our own situation to plug the extra money into DCA rather than actually considering our other options and considering if those other options might be comfortable for our situation, and we also might consieder how many bitcoin that we have already bought and what were the prices of our purchases. If we have $1k new money come in, yet we already bought a bunch of bitcoin in the $112k to $122k prices (let's say we bought $5k worth in the past 2 weeks, and we had earlier purchases of $100 per week for the previous 10 weeks), then we might consider the extent to which we buy right away with the $1k or if we might save some of that for buying on dips that may or may not end up happening.

Quote from: HustleZ on Today at 04:39:48 PM

Anf if you lump sum it then theres a high chance a person not lose but lessen his profit amount percentage. So if you have large amount of money some should be lump summed while other DCAed and if you have a small sum then you should focus more on DCA. But there should be a fund set aside so you can still Lump sum if there is a deep retrace.

I am not sure why you are getting so much caught up in the amount of money that comes available. Sure, if you are brand new to bitcoin, then you are more inclined to just want to invest into bitcoin no matter the price until you reach a certain amount, yet sometimes you can become psychologically traumatized if you are either not holding back some for buying on dips or maybe if you just figure every week you are buying $100 (or whatever extra amount) so if there is a dip then your weekly buys will mostly capture the dip anyhow. There surely are some guys who do not fuck around at all with trying to buy dips for their first whole cycle and they figure as long as they are mostly buying weekly then they will capture any dip that might come and so for example if they have a $100 per week DCA buy, yet if they receive an additional $1k, maybe they will turn their DCA up to $250 per week until they run out of the extra money, and sure they might have a period in which more money is coming in so they will keep their DCA at the higher rate, and then return to their $100 per week rate when they have pretty much used up that extra money that they had come in.

There is no exact way, yet we can still consider any time that we have extra money coming in, we have the 3 options that we should at least consider, even if we might be disinclined to hold back any money for buying dips since we are already buying every week, so we will largely capture any dip if there is one, and after 4 years of investing into bitcoin, we are going to largely expect that our average coest per BTC will be close to the 200-WMA. and generally the BTC price tends to spend most of its time at least 25% higher than the 200-WMA. Right now the BTC price is right around 125% higher than the 200-WMA and we can look at any date historically and verify the extent to which the BTC price was higher or lower than the 200-WMA and by how much.

Quote from: Loyang on Today at 05:34:45 PM

Quote from: HustleZ on Today at 04:39:48 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 04:27:32 PM

If you have $5k to $10k, you could invest parts of it lump sum right away, yet even the parts that you would defer by DCA or by buying dips, you would set up the parameters, the amounts and the time, so the DCA could be over 5-6 weeks or it could be over 5-6 months or some other timeline, and if the BTC price generally trends down during the period of your DCA you are better off for deferring yet if the BTC price generally trends up during your period of DCAing you would have had been better off to buy right away with that portion. You cannot really know price direction with certainty, even though you could have some hunches that might end up being or not being correct

Yes you are correct. If a person has a large amount of money eg $5k to $10k then one should lump sum some.of it while leave some To DCA so that DCA smoothens the volatility out for the lump summed amount. But if a person has less lets say $1k then he should Just stick to DCA and Invest little by little because that amount isnt much to lump sum. Anf if you lump sum it then theres a high chance a person not lose but lessen his profit amount percentage. So if you have large amount of money some should be lump summed while other DCAed and if you have a small sum then you should focus more on DCA. But there should be a fund set aside so you can still Lump sum if there is a deep retrace.

If I have some money as you said. In that case, I will keep that amount in a separate fund to buy aggressively during the decline. And we will continue to buy continuously with discretionary income. Because

An investor should have a main goal such as to continue buying continuously until his portfolio is built and to hold their holdings until the end of the period. In between, there are many types of declines in the market. Many people buy aggressively during that time. I think it is very good to buy aggressively during that time. But how much aggressive to be aggressive depends on their financial situation. But if a person keeps money aside for aggressive buying, then he can buy aggressively with the entire amount of money he has deposited.

Your idea might work Loyang, yet I get the sense that many of us should figure out our level of aggressiveness based on our finances and not based on whether or not we perceive there to be a bitcoin dip... so the better we have our finances figured out and we have decently strong back up funds, then we are in place that we are already able to be aggressive in our bitcoin accumulation... if we are holding back money for buying dips, that likely shows that we were being somewhat whimpy in our regular buys.. so I question the extent to which we believe that becoming more aggressive on dips is helpful to our situation, even if we might purposefully choose to hold back some value for various dip buys if the dips were to happen. Once a person has been accumulating bitcoin for 1-2 cycles there may be some value in transitioning over to a buying on dip practice.. also like I mentioned in previous posts, there could be some value for someone who has large lump sums to invest in bitcoin to hold back some of that for buying on dips... .. yet there might be an assumption that if a person has $20k, and then he more or less buys $15k between $112k and $122k, then maybe he wants to hold the other $5k for buying if the BTC price goes below $112k.. even though he understands that the BTC price might not go below $112k, but he feels better to save that $5k for such circumstances, and maybe he is buying between $200 to $300 per week... with his regular income.. so he just keeps the $5k on the side, just in case. It may or may not be a good idea to keep that much on the side, especially if he is otherwise new to bitcoin with only less than a year buying bitcoin with mostly DCAs between $200 to $300 per week.

The circumstances of the guy, including how long he had already been buying, will help to support whatever approach he decides to take.

Quote from: Tonimez on Today at 06:35:53 PM

Quote from: HustleZ on Today at 04:39:48 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 04:27:32 PM

If you have $5k to $10k, you could invest parts of it lump sum right away, yet even the parts that you would defer by DCA or by buying dips, you would set up the parameters, the amounts and the time, so the DCA could be over 5-6 weeks or it could be over 5-6 months or some other timeline, and if the BTC price generally trends down during the period of your DCA you are better off for deferring yet if the BTC price generally trends up during your period of DCAing you would have had been better off to buy right away with that portion. You cannot really know price direction with certainty, even though you could have some hunches that might end up being or not being correct

Yes you are correct. If a person has a large amount of money eg $5k to $10k then one should lump sum some.of it while leave some To DCA so that DCA smoothens the volatility out for the lump summed amount. But if a person has less lets say $1k then he should Just stick to DCA and Invest little by little because that amount isnt much to lump sum. Anf if you lump sum it then theres a high chance a person not lose but lessen his profit amount percentage. So if you have large amount of money some should be lump summed while other DCAed and if you have a small sum then you should focus more on DCA. But there should be a fund set aside so you can still Lump sum if there is a deep retrace.

What you refer to as large amount of money could be another person's DCA weekly or monthly allocation. So referring to $5k as large amount of money is somewhat misleading. What matters is understanding your goal and moving after it at your own level. There are low income Earners who DCA weekly or monthly with amount not more than $20 while there are still elite investors who DCA weekly or monthly with over $1k. Both low income Earners and elite investors have same responsibility, buying continuously to hold and chasing their accumulation target. This is why you have to analyse your income and allocate what you can be able to hold to bitcoin investment. If you measure your speed with someone else's speed, you may loose all your bitcoin stash. Aggressive buys is good when you have additional discretionary income during dips instead of going beyond your capacity during dips.

It is very important to avoid noise from outside and focus on your DCA approach. This will give you the soft play through which you can be able to HODL for a very long time. Going for dips when you are not financially ready for aggressive buys just because it's dip is a bad decision which can cause a harm to your portfolio.

The amount of BTC that a person chooses to target may well have to do with their own income and their standard of living expectations, so it still would take a person 10 years to invest 1 years income into bitcoin if he is investing at 10% per year, yet if he is ready, willing and able to invest at 25% per year, then it is only going to take him 4 years to reach 1 years of his income. Some guys can draw from other resources, so if they had already been investing in traditional investments for 10 years, then maybe they had already accumulate 1-2 years of their income in other asset classes, and they might want to reallocate some or all of that in bitcoin, whether they do it as a lump sum or they DCA the amount from one asset and reallocate into bitcoin... so surely there can be a product of both time and quantity of money put in that can help to influence a guys options and/or his reaching of his target.. so a guy who is able to commit to a higher percentage is likely to get there quicker.. yet even a guy with a $40k income might want to get to a higher income level before he starts to withdraw from his bitcoin, and a guy can already likely perceive that his options are increasing with a larger income, so even if he might be making $40k per year, but if he sees that his bitcoin can support a $5k per year income versus being able to support a $20k per year income, he might already start to feel quite empowered by those numbers even if he might not start to withdraw from his BTC, yet instead to continue to either grow it or to just let it grow with the passage of time by his merely safeguarding what he had already built.