Quote from: sotelorene on September 23, 2025, 08:00:30 PM

Quote from: De seer1 on September 23, 2025, 07:43:42 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on September 23, 2025, 06:58:35 PM

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i hear you , stating that Bitcoin is not for everyone is a kind of missing the point of how it was designed, you don't need to accumulate as much as a whole BTC that is the beauty of it. Satoshi built it so anyone can accumulate it bit by bit, with small amount it is not about being rich it is being consistent a strategies like DCA can make it possibility for everyday to get in , no matter how little their income level is, so bitcoin is for everybody.

I disagree with you on this, Satoshi didn't create or design Bitcoin for people to get it little by little that is wrong, have you forgotten that Bitcoin was not created at $100k and above? When Bitcoin was created it was below $300 I guess and I'm sure Satoshi didn't know Bitcoin will be this great in years coming even though he might have the intention that it can be use as alternative method with fiat. So what you stated is not true. Back then you can literary buy as money Bitcoin as you want with 1-$2k, Bitcoin was not created at this stage it is now rather it started from somewhere and get to this present stage and that is why we say Bitcoin has potential and it will keep growing.

Bitcoin did not have a price at all for about a year and a half after it had gone live. Surely there were some exchanges of bitcoin, yet the Pizza transaction is one of the first recognized transactions in May 2010, which would have had been nearly a year and a half after bitcoin had gone live.

There are many aspects about bitcoin that makes it for anyone and/or anyone, yet if someone is really poor, they can still buy some satoshis, but they might not be able to put as much value into bitcoin as compared with someone with more money, yet many of us have spoken on the bitcoin topic for years and recognized that even a relatively poor person could use bitcoin in such a way that he accumulates bitcoin disproportionately to someone else who is way better off than him, and he ends up profitting stupendously based on his focusing on accumulating and holding bitcoin.

Even a guy who had been accumulating $10 per week of bitcoin for the past 12-ish years (such as starting in early 2014) may well would have had accumulated a few bitcoin by now, especially if he persistently bought in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020. It would be difficult even for a fairly well-to-do person (who is just staring out) to accumulate a few bitcoin these days... so the relatively poor person who ONLY had $10 per week to invest into bitcoin would have had passed up a great number of his peers, and he maybe well would have had passed up some folks who were in much stronger financial status than him.

Right now a person with 4 BTC could sustain an annual income of $21k per year from the passive income off of that bitcoin, and likely by 2029, 4 BTC will be able to sustain something like $80k per year income, for anyone who had either already accumulated 4 BTC or who might be in the process of building up such size of a bitcoin stash..

Right now it is quite difficult for anyone (even relatively well to do people) to accumulate 4 BTC, even though guys who started accumulating bitcoin 1 or 2 cycles back, might have a good chance of reaching such goal, depending on how much of their discretionary income or other ways that they might have been able to get into bitcoin.

Quote from: Dogedegen on September 23, 2025, 08:30:11 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on September 23, 2025, 06:58:35 PM

Poor people have trouble producing discretionary income and an ability to hold and continue to add to an investment for 4-10 years or longer... Yet, bitcoin is still available to poor people, even though they could end up contributing to their own financial harm if they invest into bitcoin beyond their discretionary income..

Even if they do get some discretionary income it is usually wasted on things instead of invested.

Sure. Most people do not save and/or invest, even people who have decently good sizes of discretionary income.

Quote from: Dogedegen on September 23, 2025, 08:30:11 PM

These type of people have issues relating to not being able to have things.

You make it sound as if poor people have moral problems.

Sure, there sometimes are reasons why people are poor that relate to individual responsibility, but other times, they might have had started out in a position in which it might not have had been very likely that they would have had been able to get out of their poverty status.

Quote from: Dogedegen on September 23, 2025, 08:30:11 PM

Then once they acquire spending money they tend to go around trying to heal these issues by spending it.

Sure. Sometimes it can take quite a bit of discipline and practice to build strong cashflow management practices, and some poor folks might not want to go through the discipline, organization and efforts to actually improve their cashflow management skills/practices.

Quote from: Dogedegen on September 23, 2025, 08:30:11 PM

I have seen a few cases of someone who was very poor in their childhood gain a lot of wealth later in life. They keep buying all sorts of things and waste a lot of money. Of course this does not apply for everyone.

If someone has poor habits and also a bad mindset , they might not know how to manage their money and their emotions and they might not even know where to put their money and to live off of the stream of it, rather than spending down the principle.

So for example in traditional investments, if you have $2 million and if you can put it somewhere that you are on average able to earn at least 4% per year, then you would be able to withdraw 4% per year without depleting the principle.. So that would be an income of $6,666 per month or $80k per year.

If you put that $2 million into bitcoin right now, then that would get you right around 17.8 BTC, which I personally believe that you could withdraw $94k per year in a sustainable and perpetual way, since bitcoin is a better investment than most places that you could put your money.

Not everyone realizes that there are ways to spend and invest and to not overly deplete their principle. So mistakes will be made if a person comes across a bunch of money but does not figure out some plan to make sure that they are not overly spending from it, but that it is in a place that will likely gain value.

Of course, if a person came across $2 million, and he was wanting to invest most of it into bitcoin, and then to keep some cash out, he could even choose to keep $400k out of his investment and put into some kind of a liquid way of being able to draw his income for the next 4 years, so then he would end up ONLY buying right around 14.3 BTC right now, and surely he can see where his 14.3 BTC will be at in 4-ish years when he might start to drawing income upon his bitcoin, which I personally consider based on estimations regarding future projections of the 200-WMA that he would likely be in a position to draw more than $100k per year, and possibly even more than $200k per year by the time we get to late 2029.. since if the 200-WMA is valued aroudn $211k at that time, then his BTC stash of 14.3 BTC woold be valued at around $3 million, which would allow him to withdraw around $300k per year starting in late 2029.

Surely future projections might not end up being correct, so guys have to consider how to handle what they have and how to deploy any of their resources to account for future possibilities.

Quote from: DYOR+BTC on September 23, 2025, 09:59:15 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on September 23, 2025, 06:58:35 PM

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Not all poor people are having trouble producing discretion income, it could be poor people without planing or financial management. Being poor doesn't signifies not being able to have discretion fund or income, but due to the way some people kept themselves it now looks as if they can't have discretion fund or could end up contributing to their own financial harm

It is hard to not overly generalize since people will tend to be poor for differing kinds of reasons, and frequently poor people will not have many assets and/or very good income or good income prospects. Surely there can be cases in which some poor people can organize themselves out of an otherwise bad situation.. but yeah odds are against folks who are poor, even though sometimes there might be some ways out of the poor trap.. and bitcoin could be helpful, but not going to necessarily help any poor person out if they are not figuring out ways to improve their discretionary income.

Quote from: DYOR+BTC on September 23, 2025, 09:59:15 PM

, but I bet its not always like that. Just that some makes it look so. Besides that I don't know how we can quantify a poor person, because I see that each person has his level of income and provided they can afford as little as they can then they can't be considered poor.

0f course , we can make some generalizations, and surely some poor people are going to have worse situations than others, and there may well be a lot of devil in the details in order to attempt to figure out if there might be some ways that some poor people might be able to organize their way out of a situation in which various cards might be stacked against them.

Quote from: DYOR+BTC on September 23, 2025, 09:59:15 PM

To me a poor person in Bitcoin investment is a person who can afford to buy any amount of Bitcoin despite the amount they have. They might be rich but lacking the passion of investment into Bitcoin can be considered poor.

Sure, there are various persons who have a lot of income, but they are not prioritizing investing into bitcoin, and they might not even recognize/appreciate the problems that bitcoin potentially helps to resolve.

Quote from: DYOR+BTC on September 23, 2025, 09:59:15 PM

To me a no coiner or low coiner is poor minded but an investor who invest as little as they can afford without being biased can be considered rich because rich and poor is not the finance but the mindset and how we take investment seriously that can determine who is rich or poor. A poor minded person is poor, while a rich minded person is rich if put to action at the right time.

Yes, for sure we know about examples of persons who are poor and are able to invest into bitcoin for many years and get themselves ahead of their peers and also to get themselves ahead of people who are in way better financial circumstances. Above in my response to sotelorene, I describe a hypothetical situation in which a person who started investing into bitcoin in 2014 at $10 per week may well could have had accumulated around 4 BTC over the years, and surely there are folks with $100k incomes who might not ever be able to get to levels of 4 BTC.