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Scraped on 24/09/2025, 20:56:42 UTC
Quote from: Lucius on September 24, 2025, 10:54:09 AM
Quote from: Dogedegen on September 23, 2025, 08:04:14 PM
Quote from: Lucius on September 23, 2025, 10:55:15 AM
Air-gapped wallets are actually not complicated at all and I recommend them to everyone who has cryptocurrencies of a higher value.
Maybe but the usability goes down with every step in increased security. The best and easiest to use are extension wallets and mobile wallets. When you use switch to hardware wallets the usability drops a bit and even more when you go for air-gapped wallets. The trade-off that we can't escape.
But air-gapped wallets are something you'll use for long-term storage, so you won't realistically use them often. Even if you use them daily, I don't see a problem that their usability is not at the level of average HW, because all you have to do when sending a transaction is to confirm that transaction by scanning a QR code (fast option) or using an SD card (slightly slower option).

I don't know if this is your conclusion from personal experience, but I have one such device and so far I have not gotten the impression that it is more difficult to use than what we call ordinary hardware wallets.

Extra security comes at a price, but I'm happy to pay that price, whether it's money or a little more time.
Here I just wanted to perhaps note that the tradeoff is not escapable and that it is not for everyone. I don't think someone with $100 or $1000 in crypto needs a hardware or air gapped wallet. It depends a lot also on the kind of usage that you need to do. We usually talk about Bitcoin, but for altcoin people who need to do a lot of transactions very fast this scheme is not workable. Preferably everyone should have the biggest percentage of their assets in long-term storage as you say. My second note is that it is definitely not for the older generation. If they are not already well versed with different devices, they will have a lot of trouble with this.  Tongue

Quote from: xandry on September 24, 2025, 12:49:16 PM
Quote from: Dogedegen on September 23, 2025, 08:04:14 PM
The best and easiest to use are extension wallets and mobile wallets. When you use switch to hardware wallets the usability drops a bit and even more when you go for air-gapped wallets. The trade-off that we can't escape.
This is not the case. When using a hardware wallet that works with QR codes, it practically does not change. For example, you can continue to use browser extensions like Solflare, Keplr, Metamask or Rabbit Wallet, OKX wallet, including the OKX mobile app.
A couple of actions are simply added to the usage process in the form of scanning a QR code and displaying it back to the webcam.
ThatIt is definitelynot the case.? Even if you had to do only 1 extra click of the same kind that is a net negative on the usability. The reality is much worse though. You can benchmark the usability in an amateur way. Put a timer and see how many transactions you can make with Metamask on uniswap in 1 minute. Now try the same with ledger and Metamask and you will see that the difference is extraordinary.

I don't know why you would advocate differently because the usability and security tradeoff is taught at every IT in these subjects, you can find it in most security or usability books. Huh It is one of those widely known facts and not new knowledge so I don't get it.
Original archived Re: Cold storage? Still Have a Backup..
Scraped on 24/09/2025, 20:51:14 UTC
Quote from: Lucius on September 24, 2025, 10:54:09 AM
Quote from: Dogedegen on September 23, 2025, 08:04:14 PM
Quote from: Lucius on September 23, 2025, 10:55:15 AM
Air-gapped wallets are actually not complicated at all and I recommend them to everyone who has cryptocurrencies of a higher value.
Maybe but the usability goes down with every step in increased security. The best and easiest to use are extension wallets and mobile wallets. When you use switch to hardware wallets the usability drops a bit and even more when you go for air-gapped wallets. The trade-off that we can't escape.
But air-gapped wallets are something you'll use for long-term storage, so you won't realistically use them often. Even if you use them daily, I don't see a problem that their usability is not at the level of average HW, because all you have to do when sending a transaction is to confirm that transaction by scanning a QR code (fast option) or using an SD card (slightly slower option).

I don't know if this is your conclusion from personal experience, but I have one such device and so far I have not gotten the impression that it is more difficult to use than what we call ordinary hardware wallets.

Extra security comes at a price, but I'm happy to pay that price, whether it's money or a little more time.
Here I just wanted to perhaps note that the tradeoff is not escapable and that it is not everyone. I don't think someone with $100 in crypto needs a hardware or air gapped wallet. It depends a lot also on the kind of usage that you need to do. We usually talk about Bitcoin, but for altcoin people who need to do a lot of transactions very fast this scheme is not workable. Preferably everyone should have the biggest percentage of their assets in long-term storage as you say. My second note is that it is definitely not for the older generation. If they are not already well versed with different devices, they will have a lot of trouble with this.  Tongue

Quote from: xandry on September 24, 2025, 12:49:16 PM
Quote from: Dogedegen on September 23, 2025, 08:04:14 PM
The best and easiest to use are extension wallets and mobile wallets. When you use switch to hardware wallets the usability drops a bit and even more when you go for air-gapped wallets. The trade-off that we can't escape.
This is not the case. When using a hardware wallet that works with QR codes, it practically does not change. For example, you can continue to use browser extensions like Solflare, Keplr, Metamask or Rabbit Wallet, OKX wallet, including the OKX mobile app.
A couple of actions are simply added to the usage process in the form of scanning a QR code and displaying it back to the webcam.
That is definitely the case. Even if you had to do only 1 extra click of the same kind that is a net negative on the usability. The reality is much worse though. You can benchmark the usability in an amateur way. Put a timer and see how many transactions you can make with Metamask on uniswap in 1 minute. Now try the same with ledger and Metamask and you will see that the difference is extraordinary.

I don't know why you would advocate differently because the usability and security tradeoff is taught at every IT in these subjects, you can find it in most security or usability books. Huh It is one of those widely known facts and not new knowledge so I don't get it.