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Edited on 29/09/2025, 22:46:51 UTC
lopp isn't involved with the development of bitcoin core at all-- beyond being a bitcoin using member of the public that has sometimes commented on things that interest him.

Bitcoin developers overwhelming do not like NFTs/embedded shitcoins, or similar.

Major miners already disabled the OP_RETURN limits, so maintaining them for relay by default just causes harm without a benefit.

Also, some people who would have otherwise used them are instead using fakepubkey outputs which are infinitely worse.  Nothing new can be embedded that can't be done now because 1. miners already bypassed, and 2. can be embedded in the witness instead of the outputs.

So the whole thing really is a nothing burger and is just acting as a proxy for parties who are pro-censorship to try to enlist support on the basis of NFT bullshit sucking.  Problem is that that isn't a genuine division, pretty much eveyone in these discussions thinks NFT bullshit sucks.  It's just that we already have capacity limits and fees to manage it which clearly do work if not fast enough for everyone's preference--- and degrading the central properties that make Bitcoin worthwhile isn't an acceptable risk,  particularly vs nothing burger op_return.

That's like saying we shouldn't be allowed to filter spam from getting into our Email Inbox because spam is free speech

The USG passed through some horrible anti-patriotic freedom destroying law by calling it the "Patriot" act.  Calling the traffic here spam seems to have some similarly psychologically distorting effects.  Spam is the wrong word.

Email spam is an unsolicited commercial advertisement (or scam attempt) sent at practically zero cost in bulk to a huge number of targets.  If the target reads it at the very least it wastes their time.  They didn't ask for it, they didn't want it, and the spammer has little incentive to be selective because sending it is practically free.  You are successful in defeating spam if you don't waste your time with it clogging your inbox or waste your time reading it, even if computers acting on your behalf spent a lot of resources analyzing it.  The fact that the spammer may have successfully communicated with someone *else* is just not your concern.

This "spam" in Bitcoin is send to a consenting party, created by a consenting party, processed by a consenting miner who his paid very very handsomely for their efforts.  By the traditional definitions of spam you already defeated it: You'll never see it, it never wastes your time.  Instead, bitcoin "spam" opponents are concerned with interfering with the consensual interactions of third parties.  There are fair justifications for them caring about it, but it's just very different from the issues around spam.

The difference is significant because tools that work against Email spam with minimal risk of collateral damage or moral hazard, don't work against "bitcoin spam" and/or come with significant risk.  Because fundamentally email anti-spam is about protecting your time, while bitcoin "anti-spam" is about inhibiting communications between consenting third parties.

In the interest of having a useful discussion I don't object to using the common language for this stuff, but it's important to keep in mind that Bitcoin "spam" and email spam are just entirely different things and not really comparable.

[Technically there is some 'spam' by the traditional definition in Bitcoin-- dust payments. But these are largely addressed by wallets not displaying tx details in ways that would encourage dust payments... and they have not been a significant issue or the subject of any of the 'spam' debate].
Original archived Re: I don't understand the arguments for Bitcoin Core v30
Scraped on 29/09/2025, 22:16:16 UTC
lopp isn't involved with the development of bitcoin core at all-- beyond being a bitcoin using member of the public that has sometimes commented on things that interest him.

Bitcoin developers overwhelming do not like NFTs/embedded shitcoins, or similar.

Major miners already disabled the OP_RETURN limits, so maintaining them for relay by default just causes harm without a benefit.

Also, some people who would have otherwise used them are instead using fakepubkey outputs which are infinitely worse.  Nothing new can be embedded that can't be done now because 1. miners already bypassed, and 2. can be embedded in the witness instead of the outputs.

So the whole thing really is a nothing burger and is just acting as a proxy for parties who are pro-censorship to try to enlist support on the basis of NFT bullshit sucking.  Problem is that that isn't a genuine division, eveyone in these discussions thinks NFT bullshit sucks.  It's just that we already have capacity limits and fees to manage it which clearly do work if not fast enough for everyone's preference--- and degrading the central properties that make Bitcoin worthwhile isn't an acceptable risk,  particularly vs nothing burger op_return.