Quote from: 4420866 on June 06, 2014, 07:11:47 AM

比特币核心开发人员的看法。
Wink

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=641178.40
Here is some words from a bitcoin core dev

http://img03.taobaocdn.com/imgextra/i3/888367355/TB2po2SXXXXXXbWXFXXXXXXXXXX_!!888367355.png

Quote from: gmaxwell on June 06, 2014, 06:15:43 AM

Ozziecoin, Your pump and dump dance would probably be more effective if you were less transparently dishonest in your approach. I'm normally happy to ignore the nonsense in the altcoin subform, but since you saw fit to go distrupt the coinjoin thread with some offtopic insult hurling I thought I'd bring the extensive response back here where its topical.

CoinJoin is trustless which is orthogonal with centralized or decentralized, it could be implemented several ways (though trustlessness is usually a prerequisite to a decenteralized implementation). Post 5 in the CoinJoin thread writes in depth about implementing it in a decenteralized way, none of which appears to have been implemented by the darkcoin developers as far as I can tell from what I've heard it seems that they're not even able to understand it. (This is a disappointment to me, since I was trying to describe these ideas clearly so others could understand them.)

More amusingly, what DarkCoin does is highly centralized because the software is closed you can't get more centralized than closed source. What the actual behavior is, is anyone's guess it's impossible to review due to it being closed though "masternodes" does not sound like something decenteralized, it sounds like something that creates a small chokepoint which could be used to deanonymize its users, like a server based CoinJoin but worse since you have to hold a huge pile of coins to run a server.

As I've said before CoinJoin is interesting because it's inherently part of Bitcoin already it just needed better tools (and now there are some, e.g. darkwallet) to make it available to people. It's a privacy improvement over not having it, but it isn't perfect, but it also didn't require any changes to Bitcoin (much less a whole altcoin) to deploy it. In an incompatible system much better is possible as is proposed by ZeroCash and much better is actually _realized_ by Bytecoin (and its forks... Monero, Fantomcoin, etc.), the later are actually working (if immature, due reinventing many wheels) implementations of much stronger privacy, decenteralized in their implementation, all released under a good open source license.

From what I can tell the only purpose DarkCoin serves is to depress me about the state of humanity.

Quote from: gmaxwell on June 06, 2014, 06:55:12 AM

Quote from: Ozziecoin on June 06, 2014, 06:30:07 AM

Now who is doing the pumping for his coin?

I haven't promoted anything here, except arguably the Bytecoin/etc. ones which aren't mine by any means.

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As I see it coinjoin as it stands is highly centralised and subject to being co-opted.

You're asserting this but you haven't justified it. I can't counter an assertion because I don't even know what you're saying is centeralized or how you believe it could be co-opted.

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Why would you attack Darkcoin?

Because it's closed source stuff of dubious quality which appears to being deceptively marketed.

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Afterall, the devs themselves have said they will make the code available soon.

This isn't how cryptosystem development works. History supports taking the position that is closed should be automatically assumed to be snake-oil if not an outright trojan until proven otherwise. It's highly suspect. Systems which are good do not need to hide their operation, not if you're going to ask other people to use it.

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It seems to me you are prejudiced against Darkcoin. Why? I cannot fathom nor am I interested.

Why do you ask why and then claim disinterest? I am prejudiced against vaporware, closed source, and pump and dump nonsense. I am prejudice against things which exploit the technical work I've done, trade on it's name (as Darkcoin did at first, until I started blasting it it), to the apparent purpose of extracting funds from people who are less technically sophisticated. Beyond the basic immorality of it, I worry that this fundraising style will remove people's willingness to support real improvements that aren't scams, since its hard for them to tell them apart.

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than your 1 centralised coinmixing server.

What are you talking about here? Nothing I've ever described involved a singular "coinmixing" server.

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As for you saying that CoinJoin is inherently part of Bitcoin; how so? It is not part of the protocol. I do not see many people use it on a day to day basis. It is not part of computer wallets. Which part of it is actually "inherent". Why cannot Litecoin use it "inherently" tomorrow if they wanted to? I see nothing inherent about it at all.

I'm now suspecting that you've never read the CoinJoin post at all pointing out that it was part of the protocol was the point. It's also inherently a part of Litecoin or anything else that copied the bitcoin code slavishly. It's a result of how signatures work in Bitcoin. Getting wallet interfaces and such developed for it was the motivation for the CoinJoin post, and now there has been good movement on that front.

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Please, Zerocash is totally closed source right now so how would you know it is better?

Closed source? It's not actually implemented yet, but unlike "DarkCoin" they've extensively described their approach in their academic publications and subjected it to extensive peer review. I'm not a fan of the security assumptions it makes, but the privacy properties the system should achieve are basically perfect.

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And bytecoin and its various forks have problems with blockchain bloat.

All cryptographically strongly-private decenteralized cryptocurrencies are going to be unprunable to some degree, which is an unfortunate scalability tradeoff but considering that no Bitcoin implementation in production today implements pruning anyways, it's hardly a fatal one at least in the medium term. The tradeoff here is fundamental: if you don't know what coin has been spent, you can't forget any of them. Of course, a system could have less privacy and things forever out of the anonymity set could be forgotten but thats the tradeoff you get.