Quote from: lobbes on June 25, 2014, 08:46:16 PM

Maybe I'm one of the stupid ones, but isn't an asset's value determined by what people would pay for it on the open market (among other things)?

No, that is called the cost. Value is something different. I'd suggest you read some of Warren Buffet's writings to help you understand the difference.

Quote from: lobbes on June 25, 2014, 08:46:16 PM

Buy gold and silver? How would buying a BTC-denominated security hedge against BTC?

Gold and silver have proven to be a pretty terrible hedge between USD & BTC historically. On a line chart of the 4 over enough time you cannot even distinguish the difference between metals/USD due to the massive increase in BTC.

If you cannot identify how a BTC-denominated security can hedge against BTC, I cannot help you or argue with you.

Quote from: jonsi on June 25, 2014, 09:06:24 PM

Please understand this is not a fight and not about who is right and who is wrong. It's just the fact that until now bitcoin securities had only brought big loses to investors.

That isn't a true statement. You need to measure losses and gains in purchasing power when dealing in multiple currencies over time. Any other way is wrong. Looking at the IPO price in BTC and the last price in BTC is either trolling, or shows a blatant misunderstanding of how assets are valued.