Quote from: allcrypt on June 29, 2014, 03:06:02 AM

Quote from: Spoetnik on June 28, 2014, 07:58:19 PM

i have repeatedly suggested to these exchange guys to change to a percentage instead of a flat fee to deaf ears..
no offense to them all but they ignore suggestions with unanimous approval and work on adding stuff the public doesn't even want.
want popularity ? give the people what they are are pleading for Wink

and Allcrypt if you were the ONLY guy doing a percentage BTC fee just imagine how many guys could brag about you being better in that respect..

Ok so then explain this situation to me, and I would really like to know how you handle it.

User withdraws a small fraction of a BTC... say it's .0003 BTC. We charge a percentage - lets say that percentage is .1%

So his withdrawal fee is .0000003

The blockchain charges us .0001 plus our .00015 fee we add so that you people don't wait around forever for your BTC. We remove .00030003 BTC from his account, and he gets .0003 BTC in his wallet. We, however, pay .00025 BTC to move the transaction. So we lose the entire .00025 fee, minus the .0000003 we "charged".

2000 of these withdrawals and our BTC wallet is insolvent by half a bitcoin. Thats $300 we should pay?

And now we have mid-sized trader who sells 3.5mil JPC at 32 satoshi, and he goes to withdraw his 1.12 BTC and sees a withdrawal fee of .00112, more than DOUBLE what we're charging now. Or the bigger guy who wants to withdraw 7 BTC - and wants a goddamned explanation NOW about why us assholes are holding his BTC hostage with an absurd you-cheating-assholes .007 BTC withdrawal fee THIRTY FIVE TIMES what mintpal and bittrex charge?!?!

See - what I'm seeing here is a lose lose lose situation. If we charge a percentage, the small BTC withdrawal people (which is you, otherwise you wouldnt be arguing for a system that NO ONE DOES because IT DOESNT WORK) bleed us dry, and - if there's a real asshole out there who REALLY wants to fuck us over, deposits 1 BTC then does 10,000 .00001 BTC withdrawals, costing us 2.5 BTC in fees in the process.

Or there's the guy who withdraws more than .51 bitcoin, who is now pissed because we raised the withdrawal fee.

So, since it's such a revolutionary idea where either the exchange itself, or the person who trades more than pennies - ONE of the two - is getting screwed - I'd love to hear the answer on how that setup works and how we keep from going bankrupt, and keep from making anyone who trades more than half a bitcoin avoid our site like the plague.

Because putting in a system that says "Hey, if you want to trade in volume, don't deposit here, because our withdrawal fees are insane!" seems like the absolute worst way to get volume.

I'm not being an ass here - honest question: Do you actually understand how BTC transaction fees work? Do you realize that they are NOT a percentage, and it's a fixed rate - based on the data size, NOT the BTC size - of the transaction? That if I send you .00008 BTC, it will charge me a .0001 fee anyway, the fee being MORE than the amount I sent?

We are charging what WE are charged, based on a rolling average, plus a small percentage to cover losses we incur when the fee is actually larger than what we charged, plus the .00015 we add as miner incentive to prioritize our deposits.

And, I'm dead serious, let me know how us charging 18 cents more than mintpal or bittrex, and absolutely moving your BTC faster than them, is so absurd. You'll spend $65 on a video game, $9 on a pack of cigarettes, $5 for a shitty bottle of lite beer at a bar (that is less than a buck at the liquor store), but 18 cents to move your Bitcoin is reason to not use a website that performs better than the competition.

I'm... at a loss...

I didn't read all of what you said to be honest but when i made my comment i figured the numbers would be bad
but i think you took the time to look at the math more closely than i did..
i always figured you could make up the loss on tx fee's by just increasing it a bit on larger tx's

This is not an attack on Allcrypt though eh guy.. ALL exchanges do this flat fee stuff
and i don't see the numbers as dramatic and screwed as your trying to portray.
and hey i could mention all kinds of interesting points such as when i look up TX's of BTC at Cryptsy take a guess what i see ?
i see SHIT LOADS of transfers bundled together and sent on one transfer and the 0.0001 min fee paid but tit costs us each 0.0005
so it would seem to me there is one heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel of a huge profit margin for TX fee's
that exchanges do NOT want to part with.

BTC being useless for moving small amounts around makes the currency kind of useless..
and in other financial areas in life we don't get hit like that..
you rattled off examples and all those items are taxed around the globe on a percentage base now aren't they ?
like pretty much anything in life really..

The concept is designed to encourage more smaller transfers i think too so hopefully that would create more business that other wise would not exist
and i can safely say myself i have millions of times wanted to move some coin around but left it sitting there doing nothing
simply to avoid getting fucked in the ass on another trade fee and another tx fee..
it's market stimulation i figure.. it would create far more trade fee's and yes more tx's fee's.
10 tx's at 0.0001
75 tx's at 0.00005
which is worth more ?
bundle em up .. take the profit your inevitably going to get and don't bitch about it.. flat or percentage fee wise lol

bottom line.. it could be made to work.. if someone so chose to do so
and it's real simple coins sitting there doing nothing do not generate an exchange money
and i stress yet again i have avoided doing trades or sending coins to avoid fee's so much it's mind blowing.
and i have brought this up lots in the last year and i have until 5 minutes ago never seen 1 guy disagree with me..
they all said yes yes yes .. me too !

Do i want an exchange to take a loss on fee's ? of course not i never said that
but is it really impossible ?

I suggested Allcrypt for this idea as a market stimulation idea and a way to step away from the pack..
which point being is hopefully this would create far more business than your getting already.
you can't bitch about hypothetical losses from clients that don't exist lol