Quote from: greaterfool on July 09, 2014, 03:19:53 AM

Quote from: Erdogan on July 09, 2014, 02:42:30 AM

Well you can continue to talk about GDP or GWP or whatever, both are fundamentally unmeasurable, and have no relation to the value of money. The same goes for the fundamentally unmeasurable velocity.

And this ...

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The point the original poster was making was that somehow there wasn't enough money around for BTC to hit 1MM [...]

is totally absurd. There does not have to exist any money outside of bitcoin (although in the market, there always tend to be alternatives). And if there are alternatives, like fiat, and the demand to hold value in reserve in the form of money in total is fixed, less value to the alternatives just means higher value to bitcoin.

The value is decided in the market from the mind of the actors in the demand and supply. The market consist of pairs, where each bitcoin supplier decides that it is worth it to trade a number of coins for a number of someting else. And vice versa for the bitcoin buyer. You could say the supply is the absens of demand to have, compared to the other good. What underlying reasons each actor has for his decision is unknown, maybe even for the individual actor himself. The urge to slush the money around doesnt give it any special value, only the demand to have or not to have.

I think this is reflecting a conflation of two questions in the original thread title - does BTC have a certain value vs. can you swap out BTC for a certain amount of USD.

And wait, GWP is fundamentally unmeasurable? That seems strange. If you believe it's fundamentally unimportant for this calculation, that's one thing, but you're saying that the sum total of world economic activity is something that we can't measure, or at least make an educated guess at within an order of magnitude, and that it's not a relevant economic indicator?

Here's a chart from the world bank measuring current world GDP: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD/countries/1W?display=grapht

Is the world bank lying to me?

Yes, they are neo keynesians. Their GWP measures GWP, not the world's production. Look into it. Apart from inaccuracies in the actual reporting of numbers from the field, it is also a question of what to include and what not to include. The broken window fallacy. They can have some fun with that number, and others, but history shows they are still in the fog.