Quote from: Gospodaar on July 10, 2014, 01:49:30 PM

Quote from: vipin.khatri20 on July 10, 2014, 10:45:39 AM

Quote from: Gospodaar on July 10, 2014, 10:41:45 AM

oh cmon! we definitely dont need PoS!

Can I know the reasons for your argument.

Thanks .

Copypasting some wise words(its about pure PoS coins but still worth reading):

"Proof of Stake coins have many issues here are some:

PoS is not backed by anything other than the belief there are worth anything and there will be an endless supply of PoS coins because one created today does not have a significant advantage over on created tomorrow, next week, next month.......
What currently is happening is new coins are created with PoW, mined for a week until a fixed number is reached and then change to PoS and then you can claim your stake at buying xyz coin. The only advantage a coin released today has over on made sometime in the future is; somebody already bought into it. The advantage quickly disappears if the new coin has a better catch phrase a flashier webpage or bigger marketing capital....
There is no end in sight for stake claimed coins and all promising x % return if you know a bit of programming you will have your very one coin too and everyone can buy into your claim based coin completely deluding the marked.
Its a barrel without bottom and once it clicks by the herd run for the hills if you own a stake.

With a PoS the richer get richer. The most significant flaw of any proof-of-stake system and any system that diminishes coin rewards, is it can't distribute currency from the hoarders to the users of the currency, thus it will end up with the hoarders (the banksters) accumulating all the coin and the currency usage dying.
This is because the wealthy spend a much lower % of their net worth than the masses do

PoS is a technological dead end. Once the coin is released the only thing to do is "claim your stake" no research, no new capital outside the buy in, no evolving industry..

PoS can NEVER remain decentralized. Satoshi's Proof-of-Work is the only known solution to the Byzantine General's Problem (was a known unsolved problem since at least the 1970s).

To 51% PoS is dead easy:
You start buying aggressively or "willy" style until you have 51% of a PoS coin, and then sell off your coins so that you no longer have 51%, but your history of having once owned 51% makes it possible to attack the network at any time in the future at next to no cost only some computing resources (and thus electricity costs, etc.).
As you once had a 51% stake, you can build a better blockchain than the other 49% can, starting from the point where you owned 51%. You develop this blockchain in secret, after you have sold off your coins (and profiting from it); and then release your secret blockchain to the world, and nodes will pick it up because it carries more stake than the 49% blockchain. Now not only do you have your profit from the original sales of the coin, you have your 51% back (to the extent that it's worth anything). Not all coins need to be in one address, in fact, doing so would prevent the attack in most PoS implementations.
Unlike bitcoin where everyone can see if anyone comes dangerously close to 51, in PoS its all hidden, an attack can and will happen incognito.
There is no way of knowing if any PoS chain is already "dead", as it could have been done at any-time in the past..

But then there's is also the social 51% attack where a tiny majority hold a massive percentage of the currency. When this occurs the market is open to extensive manipulation for the benefit of the few, as with real world economics (the 1%).
NXT is a good example of the social 51% attack, the top 33 accounts hold 51% between them. The top 50 accounts hold 61.2%. I'm quite sure the top 1% of accounts (400 ish) hold almost everything, with the other 99% playing with spare change.

PoW is a promise that x amount of energy has and will be used to make the coinis backed by energy, and energy is the only truly universally accepted wealth. There is no better backing than energy because everyone needs it, wants it and i will never have any problem selling it. To create a PoW coin you need x amount of energy and you can not cheat. The best you can hope for is to have a more efficient miner. Because the energy has been spent, the coin has a base value (many other things on top) and is a kind of a storage of it which you can exchange.
(The same apply's for gold digging it up, storing..... only difference is it is awkward to exchange)
Remember u can't create something without work. This is simple physics. There is financial commitment in proof of work which gives it value."

Lets come to SFR first. I never said that make SFR a pure POS coin, but add POS on top of it. Which can be useful as small transactions can be done by POS, which will be fast, so that to promote real life daily usage of SFR and total supply can be divided between POS and POW.

Who are you calling hoarders are actually investors. If investors see anything useful they will buy it and you can't stop them. But the 51% attack is not a problem with SFR because investors can never hold that much as it will be mined slowly. Also for the sake of argument POS became popular because as you said energy is very important and mine-able coins use lot of energy to produce. Even if you look at bitcoin there are only about 1000 individuals who hold 50% of market.

The important thing for any coin is to get accepted, as even POW coins are easy to make and there are so many of them. To get accepted you need volume and for volume you need to be popular and you can only make your coin popular by fulfilling market requirements. How many coins do you think really has a real life use and why do I need crypto currency for daily transactions? Bitcoin was made to decentralise finance market and ease the international payments. In a way there are not many % population that mine, so why does miners get all the reward? and they can also keep mining and hoard a large amount of coins. Right now miners will keep mining and dumping to investors but why will I buy a coin if I see its value decreasing due to constant increase in supply of coin? If money is involved in anything than obviously who invest, will want returns from it.

Crypto currency can become truly decentralised if every person on this earth is able to mine but if everyone will be able to mine than the coin will loose value, so there will be no buyers. So my friend if you want SFR to survive than "all the stakeholder" should get benefit from it, otherwise it will die as soon as it wakes up like other mineable coins with endless supply. Investors will invest when it see the value rising in future, miner will mine if they see investors buying it, other people will use it if they see coin popular and easily exchangeable. Everything is related. So POS is as important as POW and low inflation.

Thanks for your reply.