Quote from: deroyale on March 01, 2012, 02:48:51 PM

I agree that debt-based currencies are BAD and we should adopt some sort of tally-like system (bitcoin, maybe?)...

I really don't see bitcoin solving the problem of currency being manipulated. It basically begs to be manipulated by having absolutely zero recourse to combat hoarding. This is the main problem with gold-backed currencies. The upper echelon of the wealthy can call in loans, sell investments, etc. and hoard currency and cause the markets to panic/crash, thus making cheaply available property and investments and giving them the power to control even more real wealth than they did before. There is evidence that this is what JP Morgan and his buddies did on purpose to get the Federal Reserve Act passed, so that the public can be slowly bled dry instead of causing major recessions.

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I believe the central banks colluding with the federal government - and their practice of fractional reserve lending - are also at fault there...

There's no real "belief" necessary, it is a fact. Once the government gives private entities the power over money, the people have no recourse except to eventually try to elect people like Ron Paul. Unfortunately, since politicians are so easily swayed in their actions by money, very few politicians will use their power to take that power away even though it is hardly in the best interest of their constituents.

I disagree in part about fractional reserve though. I believe it gets a bad rap because of how it has been abused and how that abuse has been sanctioned by world governments. Fractional reserve can be a very good thing for economic growth, but it can be a catastrophic thing when it is abused, and historically it has always been abused.

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"Until we stop talking about deficits and Government spending and start talking about who controls how much money we have, it's all just a big shell game, a complete and utter deception. It won't matter if you pass an iron-clad amendment to the constitution mandating a balanced budget; our situation is only going to get worse until we root out the cause at its source."

-Bill Steer from The Money Masters

Switching to a debt-free currency issued by the people (government) would make this a relative non-issue. But the two presidents who made this a big part of their presidency were assassinated. Of course, even if the currency were debt-free, there would still be an amalgamation of large corporations with too much influence and we would probably fall back into some other cycle of manipulation. This is one thing bitcoin certainly does fix, though not adequately, imo as it only removes government corruption from the equation, it doesn't solve the underlying issue of money manipulation.

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Helicopter Ben is manipulating the 'price' of dollars; just because gold and silver can be manipulated (and it is being manipulated at the moment, it is artificially low thanks to paper-shorts) doesn't mean (imo) you should not use them to preserve wealth. If you're saving in debt-based currencies because you don't like the alternative (not the best alternative, just the most likely)... you're cutting your nose off to spite your face.

Oh I don't disagree with you. It's just the fact that everyone who didn't save in gold and silver gets screwed, and those holding gold/silver profit because of it. I have moral issues with this. I'm not accusing anyone of being immoral for being ahead of the curve, but I just wish there weren't a curve anyone had to be ahead of. Money should be neutral. Let productivity and ingenuity decide how wealth is allocated, not manipulation. Multiple currencies is a hack, not a solution.