Quote from: VJLoops on August 01, 2014, 10:58:16 AM

Quote from: Searing on August 01, 2014, 10:40:07 AM

paypal also has something called the paypal executive committee you can petition on stuff..

Would you happen to have a link or more info? A quick google search didn't turn up anything. Cheers!

NOTE: ..... multiple long rants trying to help /ignore if you don't want to read..again in my demented way
trying to help I got my refund would like to see some more posts in this forum of the same.....

I just asked to have the fraud dept involved at amex....THEY CONTACT YOU BY PHONE or at least that was the case last year
IF THEY THINK YOU ARE LEGIT so give the amex as much real info on all this in a concise manner on your amex or cc dispute
as you can...

At that point they say that they will 1) look into it (which in BFL's case I never heard back from them last year)

and/or 2) ask the process you have to go to have the paypal executive committee look at this and how to contact board members
they may or may not give this info out but if it is more then 45 days I think they will if in that at this point with the 45 day
window for refunds with paypal gone ..it is your only option...ie prove fraud or non-existant product etc to amex or your cc compnay
....(imho) ..in that the paypal exec committee would have to over rule that timeline and refund you direct....and put other pressure
on BFL to get money back....ie a p/o'd paypal in other words....

In the BFL case this info was put out there (look at bfl f*cks us over thread on bitcoin talk....the forum members and ask about this or BFL scam thread etc)

So many people swamped the paypal exec committee.when this info hit bitcointalk BFL threads
that BFL if I remember right ..changed banks and cut off funds to paypal at that time....back last year was told I missed it by 2 days...

with BFL initiating the 6 month 1 day you don't get your monarch this year...they changed or refunded such to paypal again..but again due
to dumb luck and circumstances that forced BFL to do so...don't count on this from alpha imho they will just go belly up...

sorry have no idea the links or the email anymore in fit of "crap the $$$" are lost last year (and lets admit it dumb luck is how i got the refund this year)
I trashed that folder on my laptop as a 'lost cause'....in disgust.....every time I saw the frigging folder pissed me off...there are many things I was
sure of last year...never seeing a dime from BFL was at the top of the list...lucky by circumstance I was wrong this year..knock wood..

but others in those BFL threads should be able to help just ask..if you can't get such info from the amex rep in my case or the cc company but
again they did tell me back in the day...

being dumb and lucky (and perhaps quick on getting $$$ before alpha goes under) is my advice....if it does not work and you end
up in my boat of last year thinking the $$$ is lost at least you know you did everything possible ...it helps....and again you can
always just trip over good luck on all this but......work the problem you will feel better imho then just eating s*it from alpha on this crap!

Searing

Quote from: bumface on August 01, 2014, 03:00:39 PM

i doubt if they realise the seriousness of the situation and howmany people are reporting them to any and every agency they can find....

The fact that a terms page can not superceide the law also seems lost on them.

I say it again, the wise course of action that will ensure survival of the company is refund the people who want a refund in full....mine with their miners until they are resold with a small discount.

The shitstorm that is coming their way is enormous,and why you would want to battle 100s of disgruntled customers in court is beyond me to understand.

The terms i have agreed to state nothing about terms being subject to change, and state nothing about me being viewed as a buisness, which i am not.

i am fully in my lawfull right, and any judge that is not smoking meth will acknowledge this,,especcially now that i am in possetion of the full website from januari.

If they do not respond to my email and grant the full refund, im going the bitpay route, and then gradually higher up in assistance. all the way up to debt collectors.

I hate what they are turning me into.i simply want my lawfull right fulfillend, and i wil bare no grudge and i might even order in the future with them if they handle this well, and have a good product to show that is not pre order.

They do not seem to understand that from the amex reps point of view I talked to (admittedly..they are just your normal regular customer reps that would add info to
the dispute...by the by they seem quite thrilled to add stuff to your dispute....must brighten up their boring day of people asking for account balances)

But anyway the 'universal' thing that struck these folks on WHY THEY THOUGHT the fraud of amex department would be all over alpha on this came down to this

Alpha sold us 'equipment' to be delivered in July (by numerous announcements etc) and a lot of us paid via paypal and cc payment.....that 30% ..then alpha said
we did not have to pay till prototype and shipping ..but the main point from amex reps view is ...we can only pay the last 70% via unsecured methods and no proof
of equipment no prototype....missed timeline...OR WE LOSE OR INITIAL 30% down.....well to amex reps point of view that is using the good graces of amex as
a front to sell people vaporware under the guise of cc and paypal protection...they were like .....wow ...could not believe alpha pulled this..

That point is what alpha is completely clueless about and NOT understanding about this whole situation..you are making paypal the cc companies and in my
case amex look like they helped prop up this scam..it looks legit at the front end ..the merchant changes the rules dumps paypal and cc option etc and
leaves customers like me screaming fraud to the amex reps....thru no fault of amex or paypal or the cc companies involved yet they got dragged into this scam.
Again these are my impressions from my calls amex reps on the actual dispute are pretty closed mouthed on what amex does for funds back...but they do agree
that it is in no way something amex at least is pleased about....in any way shape or form.

So that is the biggest elephant in the room....alpha broke the trust we expected by paying paypal and cc payment w/o amex or paypal having any say in this
and as far as the amex reps (low end customer service folk admittedly) alpha broke the MERCHANT TOS with paypal and amex with these stunts on
non-existent equipment /moving timelines and TOS's etc....I think alpha is gonna reap the whirlwind so to speak from a pissed off paypal and all the cc companies

Again I can't emphasize this enough build a cc dispute case bit by bit add to it by calling a rep as things happen you get banned from alpha forums
note it and your reasonable question that likely got you banned.....mention they don't have FRIGGING phone number on the site anymore . As
stuff happened like the phone number going away etc...I'd call the 1-800 number for amex and add this and links etc .took 3 min slowly my
dispute file showed depth and such...and again add the www.coindesk.com article to show you are on the up and up on how you are presenting
your view on all this (outside news source not just your word) and of course alpha's own ramblings on the NEWS section of the alpha site

.....anyway the amex reps are pretty much universal that amex (and likely paypal) can't let themselves be sucked into
promoting/verifying purchased of 30% just to have the merchant pull these stunts....everybody and his brother would start trying this crap selling
vaporware in this manner on the front end of it being legit.....

anyway sorry went into rant mode

but alpha being clueless to the 'Godzilla' of paypal and the irate cc companies looming overhead shows just how clueless (no matter what
their original intent was to be a legit asic mnfg) ....I see no hope on any of their other plans coming to fruition if they can't even see the
fact they are on the verge of being stepped on as individuals (fraud) and corporation into gooey jam......they be screwed imho the cc companies
and paypal are gonna come calling on this imho just a matter of time....how they can miss this bus gonna run them over....makes me even
more sure they have NO CLUE on the other stuff they want to accomplish even if they ARE legit in their (somewhat odd minds) that they can
survive as a company with these stunts..the mind boggles

Searing

Quote from: s1gs3gv on August 01, 2014, 11:38:14 PM

Quote from: Precog on August 01, 2014, 10:44:42 PM

For non customers I'm going to provide an inside look of what happens all day everyday on the Alpha forums

hmm request a refund on a 14 day old payment, get refused on the basis that it is over 5 months, ask a reasonable question on the support forum and have your question deleted within 60 seconds

Maybe they don't have any money left ?

see if bitpay will add a dispute file for info ...may help I suggest this for everyone via the method you paid
see previous posts on here on what to add

also go to alpha forums ask 1) reasonable question get banned 2) go to above agencies they don't even
have a phone number anymore 3) robo emails that say nothing 4) sorry paypal cc company or bitpay I have
no way to find redress with the company with their antics...I come hat in hand to you....reasonable fellow
that I am heh

With all the other stuff on here you can add to such a dispute UK and EU law regulations broken..the
bait and swich of paypal cc protection on 30% down the vaporware the change to unsecured payments
only ..the coindesk article the weird alpha news of we won't pay back in any manner the 30% down
unless we can extort more $$ via unsecured funding methods...but people who paid 100% are golden

etc etc

such a dispute file with whomever and or multiple regulatory agencies and paypal and cc company
and say bitpay will get you far imho

the fraud guy looks at well laid out dispute....sees no phone number bait and switch on payment
options vaporware etc..you just made his life simple no need to research on his own has the
coindesk article and alphas own weird news on no repay to 30% on vaporware and no frigging
phone number ..banned from forums for a reasonable question ..you just made that guys job
a lot easier to just go 'wow fraud' and move on to his next dispute..this could be the same
letter/setup for UK and EU folks paypal cc company bitpay etc..hit them all with it

anyway again my views...but to me looks pretty straight forward alpha is out of touch
on what they can do ...and imho most of the stuff they are trying just plain won't fly
with anybody looking over such a dispute cc company paypal gov't or whatever....

Searing