Quote from: u9y42 on August 09, 2014, 01:25:36 PM

Quote from: Ibian on August 09, 2014, 01:02:50 PM

Quote from: cbeast on August 09, 2014, 12:56:50 PM

Quote from: Ibian on August 09, 2014, 11:45:35 AM

You may wish to hop into a time machine, I'm given to understand we turn into Eloi in the distant future. That's the only way your stateless society will come about.

Animals don't have states. Some of them have territorial boundaries for predation, but they are temporary. Families don't have economies, though some have a hierarchy of lineage. Aboriginal tribes were usually nomadic. There isn't any natural law that predisposes humans to live in predefined states.

Except, you know, for that pesky little detail of our brains. And families very much do have economies. As do individuals.

Our brains don't predispose us to live in a society that has a state - I'd argue that is very much a cultural issue, and a relatively recent one in our history, if you look closely. Besides, the example of Catalonia has been brought up a few times: after decades of anarchical experiments, the population there went on to create a stateless society for a couple of years.

Catalonia is not a world power.

Fact is that the bigger the society the bigger things we can create - such as indoor plumping and hot water, for example. Electricity too I guess. Now it might just be me, but I feel pretty predisposed to have a clean dwelling with useful amenities.

The problem is not the fact that we have a state, but the power and abilities we give it and the culture as a whole. The problem is that we are dying. We have created an ideology that encourages women to study and work during their most fertile years and to postpone having kids until they are older. As a result, we have less kids. More people are dying than are being born and it has been that way since around the 80s.

A welfare state that depends on taking money from those who work and giving it to those who do not requires a constant influx of young taxpayers, and we do not have it. Every western nation will collapse as a result of this. That's the problem we need to find a solution to, and there are only two ways. Either we need to have more kids, or we need to dismantle the welfare system. There are no other ways out at this point.