Quote from: giantdragon on August 09, 2014, 01:48:32 PM

Quote from: Ibian on August 09, 2014, 01:11:18 PM

The solution is not to get rid of greed. Because greed is not a problem, and it's not possible anyway.

Are you really sure that greed cannot be eliminated in principle (even counting technology advancements in the future)? Can you bet your own Bitcoins to protect this argument? Wink

Hypotheticals are not useful. I concern myself with what is possible now, not far into the future.

Quote from: giantdragon on August 09, 2014, 01:48:32 PM

Quote from: Ibian on August 09, 2014, 01:38:47 PM

A welfare state that depends on taking money from those who work and giving it to those who do not requires a constant influx of young taxpayers, and we do not have it. Every western nation will collapse as a result of this. That's the problem we need to find a solution to, and there are only two ways. Either we need to have more kids, or we need to dismantle the welfare system. There are no other ways out at this point.

Population decrease is not a problem while growth of productivity (automation and robotics) offset it.

Several problems with this. First, automation leads to unemployment. A factory that once employed hundreds of people can now be run by robots and a few overseers and a repair crew. This would not be a problem if the reduced costs and increased profits were passed on to the formerly employed, but this is not the case. Rising overall production does not necessarily lead to a higher standard of living for the average person.

Second, a man without some form of work is a social pariah. Especially one living in a western nation who is forced to move in with someone else. It's another factor in why the fertility levels are dropping and the increasing levels of dysfunction in society. We don't need more productivity as much as we need employment, even if the overall national production falls as a result.