Quote from: Its About Sharing on August 10, 2014, 12:19:47 PM

Quote from: BombaUcigasa on August 10, 2014, 10:04:11 AM

Quote from: RoadStress on August 10, 2014, 07:15:55 AM

Quote from: BombaUcigasa on August 09, 2014, 09:34:52 AM

Quote from: RoadStress on August 09, 2014, 07:27:51 AM

WTC steel was tested for 2000 degrees C and the kerosene's open air burning temperature is around 350 degrees C. You can't have a fire that burns at 350 degrees burn something that melts at 2000 degrees.

Bullshit lies: Max adiabatic burn temperature 2,500 K (2,230 °C) (4,040 °F) Open Air Burn temperature: 1,030 °C (1,890 °F)
Bullshit lies #2: Pure Iron ('Steel' with 0% Carbon) starts to melt at 1,492 °C (2,718 °F), and is completely liquid upon reaching 1,539 °C (2,802 °F). Steel with 2.1% Carbon by weight begins melting at 1,130 °C (2,070 °F), and is completely molten upon reaching 1,315 °C (2,399 °F)

Do you guys even Wikipedia?!

Ok steel melts at 1k degrees, but have you read what I wrote? Let me repeat: Kerosene's open air burning temperature is 350 degrees. Please explain how does it melt the 1k degrees steel.

Explanation is simple. You are either a intentionally deceiving people or are intellectually not equipped to have this discussion.

Google jet fuel open air burning temperature. You will get the numbers from above: 2230 C in an engine, 1030 C in open air. Nobody told me what this was, I had to research it.
http://webserver.dmt.upm.es/~isidoro/dat1/eCombus.pdf

Steel is fully ductile (it can be shaped by rollers) at 1050 C, but it begins to soften at around 700 C. Also at 1200+ C it may be fully liquid. You don't need steel to be liquid to collapse a scaffolding structure, it has to be bend under weight enough, which happens at 700C. You build a steel support that needs to hold for example 1Kg. So you design it so it can hold 2Kg without issues. If you design it for 10Kg, then you use 10x more material for no additional results, it is simple economical reason to use sufficient while not being wasteful. So what happens to your little 2Kg capable support when it heats up to 800C? It can only hold 0.5Kg before it bends onto itself. It doesn't need to melt, have you ever worked with metals before?

Conclusion: Kerosene can burn at much more than 350 C and you state this number as the possible maximum. Steel will start losing it's integrity well below it's melting point but you choose it's melting point of 1500 C as minumum. You are deceiving yourself and others.

Did burning fuel melt steel in WTC? I don't know, I don't think so, it doesn't matter. But I don't go around telling people lies. Do your research before throwing stupid numbers around.

Bonus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne7W8UPdOro

I remember when closely watching one of the WTC's collapse on video, that around a second before it started to implode, the top part (above the impact) was tilting over. Now, it seems to me that the least resistance is not straight down, but off to one side. This is especially so considering that the top part was leaning over. But it suddenly preceded to go straight down (yes, after the weight was shifting to one side.)

Regarding temperatures and steel weakening. A few points - The steel like lattice structure acted like a heat sink, after all, it is a bunch of inter-connected steel. Couple that with the fire never appeared to get very hot. There was black smoke after the initial explosion. Black smoke means not a hot burning fire but rather one that needs oxygen. To further prove this lower heat theory, there were multiple people standing in the openings waving for help, before the building was detonated/thermited by the criminals in question.

The fire from jet fuel ignited everything within the building such as furniture, plastic and paper as well as the airplane itself. Maybe this is what you saw? The next day the resulting ash and smell was drifting in the air in my neighborhood 15 miles away. How hot was the fire? I was trained in putting out jet fuel fires. You couldn't just light it as it had a high ignition temperature. You could put out a cigarette in it. We had to pour gasoline over the jet fuel and light that which would then ignite the jet fuel. I also have experience with welding so I know how steel conducts heat. The red glow will stay localized.

If anyone is interested (snippet):

Quote

On the night of February 12, 2005, a fire started in the Windsor building in Madrid, Spain, a 32-story tower framed in steel-reinforced concrete. At its peak, the fire, which burned for almost a day, completely engulfed the upper ten stories of the building. More than 100 firefighters battled to prevent the uncontrollable blaze from spreading to other buildings. 1

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/windsor.html
That building was mangled but never came down.

Steel reinforced concrete. Different material and totally different construction methods. Also the fire wasn't at the base of the building which supports the rest of the building. Then there is the difference in the temperature of the fire.

Many have stated that the towers would have needed to have been closed down or the like for explosives/thermite to have been planted. Looks like there is ample evidence for that. Snippet

Quote

Scott Forbes, who was a senior database administrator for Fiduciary Trust, located on the 97th floor of the South Tower received a remarkable notice three weeks before the 9/11 attacks. The Port Authority of New York informed his company that there would be a power down on the weekend of Sept. 8 and 9, 2001. This would mean that all power would be off in the top half of the south tower for most of the weekend.

Forbes has called this unprecedented, because to have a data centre lose power for two days requires major preparations and disruption. He reports that as part of the power down, all security cameras and security door locks were non-operational for about 36 hours.

Remember there were no security locks on doors or security cameras, so access was free unless a door was locked by a manual key. Seeing so many strangers who didnt work at the WTC was unusual, Forbes said.

http://truthandshadows.wordpress.com/2010/10/26/trade-center-cameras-locks-electricity-turned-off-weekend-before-911/