Quote from: Quantumtangles on August 15, 2014, 02:16:14 PM

Quote from: Este Nuno on August 15, 2014, 02:06:34 PM

Quote from: Chris001 on August 15, 2014, 01:58:07 PM

Quote from: Nautica on August 15, 2014, 01:41:15 PM

Quote from: Viper1 on August 15, 2014, 01:37:30 PM

Quote from: maok on August 15, 2014, 01:30:20 PM

you are creating a precedent here. It is totally a centralized decision which will set a precedent in the future when and if crypto will be accepted as global currency. It will create the option for big entity to bring his mining power in action whenever a rolling back will be in his favour. This is an unwritten rule. Crypto stands for irreversibility not for lets take another look and if it doesn't suits us lets rewrite history by using latent forces of mining whenever a rolling back suits us.

crypto will never be accepted as a global currency with these types of things happening on a regular basis. I can understand not wanting to roll back the entire blockchain, but the patch that just rolls back the hackers transactions is a very reasonable solution. There has to be some form of "justice" or anarchy will reign and no one outside the crypto community will take any of this as a serious option.

THANK YOU. Freezing a single transaction on the blockchain is perfectly reasonable and sane. What are we, hardcore buddhists that practice radical acceptance of some guy just running away with 5% of the world supply of NXT when we could have just launched a new wallet and denied those to him? If somebody has 5% of the world NXT to play around with, NXT is dead. If the NXT community lets this opportunity go because of some dogmatic ideological belief, NXT will look like a joke and will truely die. The fact we can do this is ADDED VALUE to the blockchain. If you want your transactions to be truely irreversible, then move to a crypto where that is the case (none of them) and stop bowing down the entirely fallacious altar of of the free market.

You need to stay the hell out of crypto and go back to you bank debit card and paypal, you dont belong here. Roll Eyes

Don't you see the difference between a centralised single entity(PayPal) and a decentralised group voting on a chain?

For the record I'm not for or against rollbacks.

But the amount of ignorance as to what decentralisation is somewhat amazing.

I can see the force of the rollback argument. Prevent the thief from receiving any benefit before keeping calm and carrying on as though nothing had happened.

The problem with this is that rollbacks would set a worrying precedent. Could any Tom Dick or Harry complain of fraud and demand a rollback? Could a nation State demand a rollback.

Then again, the counterargument is that refusing a rollback might result in NXT suffering irreparable damage. I do not know what the answer is. Could one of the serious minds let us have their considered opinion on the subject (preferably someone who has no vested or economic interest in the outcome). Comments from people like me with vested interests are scarcely objective. Some objective intelligent analysis would be most welcome. Nemo iudex in sua causa.

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NXT suffering irreparable damage

What kind of damage are you talking about ? Price ? 5% centralization ? Voting power ? Forging power ?
If thief dumps most of it to different people then there will be no centralization concern.
If thief keeps all 5% then there is no price concern.
What kind of damages can 5% centralization cause ?
Unless NXT price is pumped by few whales, 5% dump should not cause too big price problem, right ?
And if it is pumped then there is significant level of centralization.
On top of it coin pumpers are not better than thieves because pumpers hide real price from investors.
So if pumpers suffer from thief dumping his 5% it will make me happy together with many future investors.

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worrying precedent

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unwritten rule

It matters only when currency depends on community because precedent affects opinion of that community.
Ideal currency will not depend on community. NXT is not ideal.
I am sure after World War III and deaths of millions of people there will be millions of reasons for community to break even good established precedent of not rolling back.
Forget about investors losing capital or breaking all unwritten rules, people's life or death will be at stake. And any millionaire forger who is against helping them will be mocked (and possibly DDOSed) by angry crowd.
Then it will slip little by little into smaller rollbacks to allow people to not die from hunger, plague, viruses, homelessness, unhappiness, e.t.c. And then these rollbacks will become result of bribes and power grabs ...

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I do not know what the answer is

I know. The answer is to develop crypto currency that does not give community any choice.
It's hard, but it's the only thing that will not be destroyed by community over time.
US Constitution was gradually destroyed during past 100 years only because people had that choice.

With power comes risk. When any stakeholder has power to affect other stakeholders, he is in danger of being forced to use that power in government (or community majority) interests under penalty of punishment (or whatever paper government decides to serve forger with). Look at all people paying insane taxes against their will (including me) - it shows how easy for government to force people to do anything. If US Constitution did not leave that choice we would live in a very happy world right now without wars, hunger, terrorism and all other crap happening.

Take that choice away from people and they will feel much safer holding your currency.

CfB gave that choice to forgers. It was good test of public opinion and subject of discussion and ideas.
But that was good only during experiment, which is called NXT.
Having that choice is not good in production environment.

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hardcore buddhists that practice radical acceptance of some guy just running away with 5% of the world supply of NXT

What if that thief is disabled African American human being that has deadly disease which can definitely be cured with 5% of NXT supply ?
Are you inhumane racist advocating probable death of that human being just to keep greedy capital holders with their easy earned in IPO money ?

Or may be thief is innocent girl trying to buy a gun with 5% of NXT to kill her drug dealer brother before he kills her for talking to police ?

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dogmatic ideological belief, NXT will look like a joke and will truely die

NXT is already a joke because it allows forks to happen and does not have plan of permanent enforcement of any dogmatic ideological belief.

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There has to be some form of "justice" or anarchy will reign

Some form of "justice" is not needed to keep computers calculating.
And it's not needed for currency to work.

Quote from: devphp on August 18, 2014, 04:37:07 AM

NXT is supposed to be a social experiment as well as a crypto currency experiment per its founder's original intention.

That's why a choice was presented to the community. The majority of the community were against rollback and voted against rollback with their stakes, which can be interpreted as the majority of NXT community understand the purposes of crypto and why rewriting history is bad, unless it's a technical issue with software of course.

I agree that polling community interests is beneficial.

So NXT is experiment and is not supposed to be taken seriously or used in production environment in long run.
Then why do we care so much about that theft ?
It was thief's experiment too. Why try to catch that guy or threaten him with real life punishment ?

It would be good to know if there are any plans to discontinue NXT experiment or convert NXT currency from experimental status to production status.
May be then thief will discontinue his experiment too ...

Or may be it was BTER experiment to destroy experimental competitor DGEX by destroying experimental NXT currency using power of NXT community of experimentators ...