Quote from: Ozziecoin on August 17, 2014, 08:08:10 AM

Quote from: DarthPiggy on August 17, 2014, 07:41:08 AM

Quote from: Freckleg on August 17, 2014, 07:33:43 AM

Quote from: DarthPiggy on August 17, 2014, 07:26:58 AM

Quote from: JGCMiner on August 17, 2014, 07:21:48 AM

Quote from: DarthPiggy on August 17, 2014, 07:16:19 AM

Quote from: Minotaur26 on August 17, 2014, 06:56:53 AM

Quote from: DarthPiggy on August 17, 2014, 06:32:25 AM

Quote from: Minotaur26 on August 17, 2014, 06:23:54 AM

Quote from: DarthPiggy on August 17, 2014, 06:12:24 AM

Quote from: GhostPlayer on August 17, 2014, 06:02:20 AM

Quote from: Minotaur26 on August 17, 2014, 05:58:05 AM

Quote from: DarthPiggy on August 17, 2014, 05:49:17 AM

Quote from: Mangled Blue on August 17, 2014, 05:40:49 AM

CAN NOBODY HERE SEE WHAT I AM POSTING?

Question: I have read your post and a bit confused. I am new to drk, can you give me a break down of how much time it should takes to send various amounts of dark anonymously?

Dark anonymizes the funds ahead of time and is constantly mixing the coin supply. This way when you need to spend, the transactions are immediate no need to wait. People are experimenting with how much time it takes to put large amount of DRK through the maximum 8 rounds of mixing which is an absolute over kill from a practical perspective, but is inevitable to want to test the system limits. But really you just anonymize once at your leisure and your anon coins sit there ready to be spent when you need to.

Indeed ! People are not getting it! ... I put my coins on a ridiculous 4 round and only took about 2h to get 4000 DRK totally anonymised, and at a fraction cost so low its almost daft to consider!!

Ok one further question.. Can you explain what is the difference between 1 round, 2 round, 3, etc of mixing. Why is 8 rounds even an option if 1 round is sufficient? How do you know how many rounds to pick to get anonymous?

The several rounds are just to eliminate the possibility of a large number of masternodes colluding with each other to deanon transactions. The possibility of that happening is very very low with 2 hops and with 8 rounds is just practically impossible. There is a spreadsheet showing the probabilities in the link below and also an explanation from Evan on how it works.

https://darkcointalk.org/threads/development-updates-july-15th.1788/

thx for the info. So if I understand this correctly, using this mathematics: https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080126081910AAdbGVx
60 of the current 600 masternodes are owned by bad actors, and I send 100 transactions at a rate of 2 hops, then there is a 63% chance that one will get detected? Is this right and is there any way to avoid this if I want to do a large number of transactions anonymously?

No in that scenario there is a 0.98% chance that party that owns 60 masternodes can deanon a particular transaction. See no single masternode knows what is up in a round you have to own the 2 that are randonmly selected in each round. If only one node is selected that is not compromised the attacker looses the trail. Plus the mixing happens ahead of time and the spending at any given time so timing attacks are pointless. But I am not an expert just sharing what I understand, just wait for Kristov Atlas review which should come out soon.

What I am saying is that, since there is a .98% of any single transaction (as you have said) then given any 100 single transactions, there is a 63% that at least one of them will be discovered. This is regardless of whether the transactions are related or not, just any 100 single transactions at 1% should give a 63% chance of at least one of them being comprimised.

Use more than 2 rounds.

Ok, so at 2 rounds it's likely to be unsecure if you are doing say 3-4 transactions / day for a month with the variables above.. So let's bump the rounds up to 3 rounds. Are there statistics somewhere for that? I didn't seem them on thespreadsheet.. I'd like to figure out how many dark transactions I can make with different variables before I am likely to get caught using Dark. In addition, won't using more rounds make the anonymizing process longer? is this likely to be an inconveniently long time, or just a little bit longer. Is there any statistics for how much longer per each round? The key question I am wondering is how to find the "sweet spot" of number of rounds and convenience for anonymous transactions using DRK

DarthPiggy, read a math book first. You are right if the change on winning the lottery is 1 in 28 mil, one lottery ticket has a 100% change.......right......

Math ph.d candidate here... and I'm genuinely asking questions so if I'm making a mistake somewhere please point it out to me.. the problem is laid out as I see it as follows: In the given spreadsheet, for 60 / 600 compromised nodes there is a .98% chance of the coins being traced (using 2 hops of mixing). So let's round that to 1% to simply the math. Now if you only do one transaction, then that's a low chance. But I want to use coins more than once. So lets say I do something that has a 1% of happening for 100 times. What is the chance that one of those times it will happen? The math is laid out here: https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080126081910AAdbGVx very nicely. Apparently it's a 63% that one of these times it will happen. As I've said, 3-4 times per day / month is about 100 times. So if I want to make about 100 transactions anonymously per month, that means there is a 63% that one of them will be discovered i.e. "I get caught" Now, I'm asking how does this change for more hops... I feel like this is a very good and interesting question. Please let me know so I (and others) can udnerstand the level of anonymity provided.

Only applies if the coin source is constant. That is not the case in reality. Coins come from different addresses, which have themselves been mixed.

Perhaps I am still misstating the math or misunderstanding the spread-sheet.
Let's say I have 1 different coin sources. 60/600 compromised nodes I choose 2 hops and make 1 transaction. Then according to the spreadsheet, that one transaction has 1% chance of being compromised.
Now lets say I have 100 different coin sources, one for each of 100 transactions. 60/600 compromized nodes at a 2-hop rate. Now each transaction itself has a 1% chance of compromise. thus in total, 63% that at least one of them is compromized.
An example: let's say I have 100 dice with each having 100 sides. So each dice has 1/100 chance of rolling a "7". Now if I roll all 100, then there is 63% chance that at least one out of the 100 gets a "7", regardless of the fact that they are different dice. It's just acumulating the independent probabilities of the unrelated events